Dunno were else to put this

Maki has a C-like syntax, but it has a lot of limiting factors. It doesn't do file i/o and it has a rather small-ish set of built-in functions compared to a full fledged language, for example. For what it is intended for, it's pretty useful, and can always be extended wih components, but its natural limits sometimes force scripters to be particularly clever or creative. It's one of my favorite languages and I could wax ecstatic about it all day, but I'll just shut up now.

-=Gonzotek=-

UnConeD: Of coure not. I thought you knew me better than that 😉
I feel that me and the jackass that said 'and for all of you that say "oooo.. AVS takes alot of effort too, and its harder than C++"... well, ya see, i highly doubt this' are even after my post, thankyouverymuch.

Now then, if you're just looking to get the DB cleaned up, you go ahead and try to convince Nullsoft of doing so. Don't come complaining to the AVS forums about it - NONE of the people here post AVS presets in the skins section (just an example); I know this for a fact. Besides that, like I said before, I seriously doubt that Nullsoft cares where the plugins go in their database.

And Gonzo, that's exactly what I was getting at, in case I wasn't clear enough

Don't come complaining to the AVS forums about it

this thread was moved here from the rip reporting forum because the mods didnt think it belonged in there and pointed here..

Talk to the AVS review people, they were supposed to be cleaning this mess up, check the presets forums

-Plague

I do them as we see them.

Originally posted by Jaheckelsafar
I do them as we see them.

I see you're in the "Forums AVS Reviewers". http://forums.winamp.com/showgroups.php?s=

What does that give you/require of you? Does it allow you to move AVS presets out of incorrect locations? If so, then could more people sign up for it? If (as I suspect) it also requires us to be AVS reviewers I would have no problem with doing that work too, but that is that much more work to do before the db is cleaned up. I still think a team set up just for cleaning up the whole db (presets, plugins, and components) would be beneficial. People whose only job is to look for incorrectly categorized resources and re-categorize them. The skin database is much better for all the work the skin review team has put into it, compared to before they existed.

Anyway, cheers to you for doing what you can 🙂.

-=Gonzotek=-

*Sigh* I have been after a separate area for this for the past year. In fact I have bookmarked an old thread about this so when/if Nullsoft make the changes that is on the wishlist backstage I can post there. 🙂



Notice the dates. 🙂😉

One day I will post there when the situation is resolved.🙂 Although probably not this decade.🙂

Despite Steve's words of support I have no influence and have got sick of asking/bitching to be honest. (All the proper plug-in authors are miffed by this too and it has disheartened the few that are left to the point as people give up altogether possibly)

Goz, etc you are willing to try and if it happens that is great. It was meant to be sorted for WA3 website release but it just made matter worse if that was possible

Oh IMHO plug-in writing is a lot more difficult than doing presets (*sigh* at my unfinished plugin in the SDk framework). I know you have limited scope and you have to be more creative but you are not writing 40,000 lines of code and have to worry about you plugin working on multiple OS /graphics cards, etc, etc the list is long so long. Hell it is hard enough just beta testing the visualizations and those are the ones I do not write.🙂

Being an AVS reviewer when you've never made an AVS preset is like being an auto mechanic when you've never owned a car. You want some guy who rides the bus every day to fix your muffler?

? Not at all.

I have reviewed music for record companies in my youth yet I cannot play an instrument. How can that be.

Maybe you think you should review only if you can make as good a visuals as you review.

Through my many years of wasting away looking at/studying visual stuff I have a good idea on what is decent or not.

Beside I could make a preset. I have done a few but not very good but my time and effort goes into new visualizations plug-ins at the moment.

I have only reviewed one or two packs anyway at the moment.

Still a little miffed as to why that attack came about. MAybe you prefered the good old days when AVS was modless and AVS packs were not getting reviewed. 😕 😕 😕 🙁

How complicated a preset is doesn't really enter into the equation IMHO. What matters is reactivity, how well it works, and how good it looks. Complicated coding is good for bonus marks. 😉 (but only if the the other three are fulfilled)

Given that criteria, anyone should be able to review a preset. Given a month, anyone can pick out the exceptional ones and the crap ones.

Yes, and I for one would not like somone who's never touched a saxophone to judge my music.

I'll make that extra special effort to review your packs Atero.

One don't need to be able to use something to be able to review something that the item would belong to in general term, But it takes a try at the item to give a more appropriate review - Especially about knowing the hard work involved.

Anyways...

We's probably need someone as hardworking as Realitysquared (See Deviantart) to move all those AVS files, but a community work should do it quickly and effortlessly (But that doesn't mean you shouldn't put any effort).

One other alternative (Was it mentioned somewhere in this topic? It's hard to remember 40 long posts, when 50% or more are long) is to create an AVS-dedicated site... But of course, the problem is for someone to start it. Nullsoft? They hadn't updated AVS for several months (Was it already a year?) (There ARE minor updates... but none of those we really notice), it's currently unlikely for them to start it. The community? The problem getting someone to start.

Hopefully one of the possible answers to this problem will be fulfilled...

IF IF IF IF IF IF.... blah blah...

If i could only know how to create dynamic webpages (know my ways trough php, mysql and the works) I could do it, but i don't think that an avs site that is made with a static html languange only would do any good, we would need a place like deviantart.com for example.

Did I say I didn't want you reviewing my packs? No, I didn't. You're an AVSer (or at least sometimes), so you know what's put into it. I just generalized my view that someone who doesn't know how to do activity x shouldn't publicly judge the difficulty, quality, or performance of activity x.

ok... to settal the "what is harder to do"... some1 post the source to an advanced avs preset and some1 post the source to an advanced wa3 plug... then... we will see what is harder

throw in the most advanced maki script too while you're at it..

This discussion is so rediculous, it's never been about "what's harder to do" or "what's better than what?"...
It was only about sorting the damn stuff..

Still, most of you probably agree that maki scripts are the easiest to make and also what's deserving least attention..
HAH! I say...

*mumbles something untranslatable*

-Plague

I don't give a fuck about what's harder to do. If I said it before I'll say it again: Your 'holier than thou' attitude is really pissing me off. NONE of your plugins is EVER going to be as versatile as AVS has always been. Nor will your plugins be as useable, editable, and fixable as AVS presets. However, AVS presets have their limits, and C++ plugins are much faster and easier to program (for certain things, such as the synchronization of a camera and a 3D render object). In all honesty we're pretty even, and this conversation is going nowhere towards the original goal of rooting out the misplaced presets (read: What ThePlague said.)

This thread shouldn't have been posted in the first place. If you'd taken ten minutes out of your life to find the AVS reviewers and politely ask THEM to move the presets, your problem would have been solved.

(By the way, your original statement is kind of selfish. We could say the same thing about moving all of the skins to a seperate site and all the plugins to a seperate site because we think that AVS presets are all that life is about. We (or at least some of us) work our asses off to make original presets with what little we have, just like you (or some of you) do with your plugins. Put yourself in our shoes next time.)

If there were already KNOWN procedures in place, then this thread would not have been started. If there are procedures that aren't publicly known (as it appears there are), how do you expect us to know to contact a AVS reviewer and be able to report problems if you don't inform us?

Originally posted by Atero
Your 'holier than thou' attitude is really pissing me off. NONE of your plugins is EVER going to be as versatile as AVS has always been. Nor will your plugins be as useable, editable, and fixable as AVS presets.

Wow! Now that's really hypocritical! How do YOU know what will or will not happen? In what way do you get the right to dictate to someone else what is possible or not, for them? That's a holier than thou attitude if I've EVER seen one.

If it's the AVS reviewers job to move the presets into the correct areas, why isn't it advertised ~somewhere~ as such? I only found out about it after seeing Jaheckelsafar's post that he does them as he sees them. The skin review team has a ton of information posted about how to report rips and other skins problems, and even a forum to do the reporting. If there is a document detailing this, point me to it and I'll shut up and start reading. If not, can someone answer my previous questions and new questions:

How does one become a avs reviewer? -- There's only three AVS reviewers, but thirteen Skin reviewers.

What are the specific abilities and responsibilities of AVS reviewers?

If you're not looking for more reviewers (as it seems you're not, since it hasn't been mentioned yet), are the current reviewers prepared for a deluge of requests?

Do the AVS Reviewers have the capabilities to move other resources (components, langauge packs, etc.) to their correct locations? -- There are more than just presets that need moving, I remind everyone.

I'm glad that the AVS reviewers are doing what they are doing, don't get me wrong please. But it's too little, too late and more effort is required. I'm willing to put out that effort, why are some people insisting on putting roadblocks between the work that needs to be done and the people that want to do it?

If I've made false assumptions anywhere in this post, don't bother attempting to "nail" me on them. Please, politely explain where I'm wrong and what the correct information is. I want the correct information, not mine or anyone else's mis-assumptions.

-=Gonzotek=-

Calm down all.

Cover bases again.

Nullsoft's winamp.com site is crap, simple.

99.99% of all the AVS presets are in the relevant sections.

If not let me know and I will move them.

The confusion arises is that the wa3 coders are upset/annoyed (as the plug-in codes were for wa2) that there new plug-in is not displayed in the new section as AVS can swamp all of them. The individual section for compenets are all intact.

We all want a new section for AVS presests but there is nothing we can do about that at the moment. Nullosft have no time/do not care.

Moving the presets on mass is no a problem as they are all in pretty relevant sections of the database. AVS presets for wa2 and visualizations for wa3, the later is the only pain.

Although AVS presets work for both WA2 and WA3 simply moving the existing wa3 submitted avs presets to the wa2 preset section does not work because of the installers designed for wa3 that some may have used.

I feel the WA3 devlopers are right to raise this question although it has been asked before (obviously you wa3 devolpers did not submit much for wa2 or you would have noticed this before). MAybe it was a little insenstivly worded but free what I can gather it was not posted in this forum initially so it appears worse tahn it is.

Nothing will be changed at the moment.

Gonz,

Report as normal if you think something is in the wrong place and should be in another section or just PM me and I will move them.

I do not check the rip section to often as it 99% are about skins not avs presets/plugins.

AVs reviewing is only a month old and we are still finding our feet but I do not see too much wrong at the moment.

I made a thread about them and choose 3 out of the few that had a interest in them. there was a 3 month back log at the time and wa staff were not updateing anything. Chatting the the skin ppl 2 or 3 was a good number. Just as teh first skin reviewers there were no guidelines apart from what we make ourselves and I do not think that we need any more at the momemnt.

So as for too little too late I think you misunderstand.

Hope it explains more

(edit oh and from what I understand all skin reviewers and avs reviewers can move compents around. Reporting them in the rip forusm seems the logical course of action for these)

Arragh I am getting more confused now.

If you goto www.winamp.com and click on compenets you go to

http://www.winamp.com/components3/

but on that page there are only 6 different catagories listed for wa3

DSP/Effect, Input Components, Locales,
Miscellaneous, Output Components, Visualizations

So that is why I thought that was all there was.

Ooppps. Silly me or I should I say Foolish website. Hopefully it will only take Nullsoft 4 months or so to add another link for the other sections that appear at some points in there consistant website (avs, games, etc). First though I will have to get through all teh brick walls before I get contact with the relevant nullsoft staff.

Originally posted by Rovastar
Reporting them in the rip forusm seems the logical course of action for these)

That's where this thread started, and Jones moved it here. If we report them in rips(which no one until just now has encouraged), will they just be bounced around and/or ignored or will they get more or less the same attention skin rips do?

Just as teh first skin reviewers there were no guidelines apart from what we make ourselves and I do not think that we need any more at the momemnt.

Care to elaborate as to what the guidelines are as of now?

[edit] By the by, thanks Rovastar for explaining and double-checking things. I finally feel like a bit of progress has been made, even if it's only getting some actual facts. Anyway, I appreciate the effort[/edit]

-=Gonzotek=-

Originally posted by Rovastar
Arragh I am getting more confused now.

If you goto www.winamp.com and click on compenets you go to

http://www.winamp.com/components3/

but on that page there are only 6 different catagories listed for wa3

DSP/Effect, Input Components, Locales,
Miscellaneous, Output Components, Visualizations

So that is why I thought that was all there was.

Ooppps. Silly me or I should I say Foolish website. Hopefully it will only take Nullsoft 4 months or so to add another link for the other sections that appear at some points in there consistant website (avs, games, etc). First though I will have to get through all teh brick walls before I get contact with the relevant nullsoft staff.

That's one big sticking point, right there. There's the Visualizations category and the AVS category.
If you look at the AVS category, you have only AVS's (just as it should be), but look at the Visualization category and it's AVS and other types mixed (and only 14 items, compared with 105 in WA3-AVS).

-=Gonzotek=-

Ah hell, I'm just starting a report here 🙂:
These are all in the Visualizations category and not in the AVS category (I checked all 105) in the Winamp3 database.
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=124472
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=123578
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=118535
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=123930
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=123530
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=123050

And finally, this one, which is listed as the "Birds of Prey 'AVS'", even though it's one of their fugly proprietary vis'es, and thus shouldn't have AVS in the title.
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=122524

-=Gonzotek=-

Yeah I 'just' noticed the AVS section. Initailly when the WA3 site was set up I do not think there was an AVS catagory but someone must have added it.

I thought the AVS and VIsualization sections were the same thing.🙂

That is what I meant in the above post.

Sorry for that and obviously I will remove these later - today/tommorrow.

I noticed the stupid WildTangant thing too. They really are stupid. I am downloading now to see if it is a AVS (I know it will not be but want to make sure) and to see how bad it is.🙂

Then I will try and change it in the Control Panel but I will be soooooo tempted no doubt to change the review rating😉🙂😉

But I might not be able to as the review section of teh website is so poor.

(edit the name of the downloadable exe is AVS too. grrrrrr)

Originally posted by Gonzotek

That's where this thread started, and Jones moved it here. If we report them in rips(which no one until just now has encouraged), will they just be bounced around and/or ignored or will they get more or less the same attention skin rips do?

Care to elaborate as to what the guidelines are as of now?

[edit] By the by, thanks Rovastar for explaining and double-checking things. I finally feel like a bit of progress has been made, even if it's only getting some actual facts. Anyway, I appreciate the effort[/edit]

-=Gonzotek=-

Ummh I dunno then where is the best place for reporting them I though rips might be the bets place but otherwise the AVS forums will do.

If you see any PM me. TO be honest I more than most want to see a nice section for Visualizations and without AVS presets. One of the first things I did when getting access the other month was to move some strays in the WA 2 database.

I honestly thought that Visualizations/avs were the same section.😳

and all the vis devolpers I know (and know most) either aren't releasing anything at the moment or I have the betas so not been checking. But I will Keep a close eye on teh Visualization section from now on.

one of the big problems is that on the components main page:
http://www.winamp.com/components3/
there's no AVS section listed, nor is there a Games section..
you'll have to go to "New Components" or "Browse Components" to get the complete list of different sections to the right..

That's the main problem.
Then there's this:

The confusion arises is that the wa3 coders are upset/annoyed (as the plug-in codes were for wa2) that there new plug-in is not displayed in the new section as AVS can swamp all of them.

Which is the biggest problem of them all in my opinion, but seems like a problem we're gonna have to live with..
But it's not just the AVS Presets that push the few available components to the next page really quickly, translations are getting more and more common too and they do a pretty good job on that too..

Hopefully, Nullsoft does something about it SOMETIME, even if it's far away...

-Plague

I changed the categories for the listed AVS packs. I'll leave that bird of prey one for Rovastar. 🙂

Now, if only the DB will keep the changes. <fingers crossed>

About that Birds of Prey AVS...
If you look at the details you notice the word AudioVisualizer, so i guess by AVS they mean that 🙄. Also it could be a way to lure "common" people to download it, because AVS is POP at the time (i know it's weird, but when wa3 was launched the first visualization components were avs packs, so they got a head start, but that advantage is growing shorter by the minute)

Ok, i didn't mean to participate in the "my dick is bigger than yours, bitch!" conversation, because im bad at that 😛

But i ask the stand-alone visualization component writers to have a little understanding towards our tiny avs community, because we get crap from all directions saying that avs sucks and it's slow and it doesn't look smooth enough etc. Even our own forum mod hates us! ( or atleast is a milkdrop fan 😉 ) So don't be suprised from peoples reaction to this post, but try to understand where we are coming from and what we have to deal day-after-day.

I think...
AVS presets are like SKINS, they are supported in winamp by default and the Advanced Visualization Studio comes with every winamp version nowadays (well maybe not in the lite 2x version if there still is that option) So i think that there should be a button in the top just like skins.

I said something... that is enough /me thinks.

Fact is, even though an expert can give a better judgement, it's the regular people whose judgement is mostly used. Sad, but true. No decent musician will think Britney Spears is a good musician, with her computer-tuned voice and silly-cone boobies, yet the majority of the male teen population obviously thinks she's great...
The solution is to accept this, and only pay attention to the comments and reviews that actually make sense (good or bad).