Sorry did not want to seem like I was flameing. Just had to put in my 2 cents worth. SM
AVS vs. Milkdrop
42 posts
SM,
Easy mate. It did sound a bit 'flamey'. (admitedly not as bad Montana38 though😉). We are trying to have a discussion about the differences between them. If you are to say MD is better than AVS, state the reasons way is an intelligent and detailed manner so they cannot have a jibe back.😉 Otherwise it may give us a bad name.OK🙂
This is not meant to be a THEM and US thread. From a constuctive point of veiw I am also here get new ideas from AVS and suggesting Ryan implement them in MD to make it even better!😉 ANd maybe give the AVSers some ideas too. AS well as trying to convert them😛
UnConeD,
Sorry about SM 😳 He is nice and friendly really😉
I will post a response to your comments later. BUt Krash is probably the man though as it is beginning to get a bit tech. I looked at your AVS of spacedust thing and nice and pretty fast it sadly (for me) the appeal of the MD version is the beat responsiveness of it.
AVS doesn't really get it as reponsive IMHO. But then again we can program in detail how we want the images to reactive to the sound.
Later,
Rovastar
Easy mate. It did sound a bit 'flamey'. (admitedly not as bad Montana38 though😉). We are trying to have a discussion about the differences between them. If you are to say MD is better than AVS, state the reasons way is an intelligent and detailed manner so they cannot have a jibe back.😉 Otherwise it may give us a bad name.OK🙂
This is not meant to be a THEM and US thread. From a constuctive point of veiw I am also here get new ideas from AVS and suggesting Ryan implement them in MD to make it even better!😉 ANd maybe give the AVSers some ideas too. AS well as trying to convert them😛
UnConeD,
Sorry about SM 😳 He is nice and friendly really😉
I will post a response to your comments later. BUt Krash is probably the man though as it is beginning to get a bit tech. I looked at your AVS of spacedust thing and nice and pretty fast it sadly (for me) the appeal of the MD version is the beat responsiveness of it.
AVS doesn't really get it as reponsive IMHO. But then again we can program in detail how we want the images to reactive to the sound.
Later,
Rovastar
Rova the only reason I had was seeing is believeing, I did not mean to sound harsh, as for other reasons I will let Krash do that as he is much more technical than me and understands thoughs things better. All I do is make presets and watch Milkdrop for now. Avs is my second favorite plugin, but the only one I watch now is MD just for its beat reaction alone. I had better get out of this forum, don't want to do something I will regret. Sorry everyone, SM
ok i downloaded milkdrop and i was disappointed
i felt like md was not user-friendly.
i'm sort of getting the hang of it but it's harder than avs
when i made my first avs preset i took a moving particle and some movement, then i added colorfade and voila my first preset.
but with md it's more complicated.
is it supposed to be so?
i felt like md was not user-friendly.
i'm sort of getting the hang of it but it's harder than avs
when i made my first avs preset i took a moving particle and some movement, then i added colorfade and voila my first preset.
but with md it's more complicated.
is it supposed to be so?
Montana38,
I am glad you have decided to try MD. I am surprised that you find it NOT user friendly. In what way exactly? - so we can make it better for the future.
Sometimes it is hard for me to be objective about this because I know it so well.😉
There is a guide at www.milkdrop.co.uk which most people find quite helpful. Try it. Is it useful? If not how can we make it better?
But I suppose it is harder to get the hang of initially than AVS. There are no tick box to try and change effects it is all menu driven. But like in AVS the real effects are typing your own formulas in.
Cheers,
Rovastar
I am glad you have decided to try MD. I am surprised that you find it NOT user friendly. In what way exactly? - so we can make it better for the future.
Sometimes it is hard for me to be objective about this because I know it so well.😉
There is a guide at www.milkdrop.co.uk which most people find quite helpful. Try it. Is it useful? If not how can we make it better?
But I suppose it is harder to get the hang of initially than AVS. There are no tick box to try and change effects it is all menu driven. But like in AVS the real effects are typing your own formulas in.
Cheers,
Rovastar
UnConeD - Just to clear one thing up, in MD, the top lext of the screen has coordinates (0,0), and the bottom right is (1,1). The cartesian and polar planes don't share the same origin.
And I'm still not seeing anything in your presets... could I be doing something wrong?
To take your example of your first AVS preset:
"You took a moving particle" - meaning that you clicked add effect, scrolled down to render, then to moving particle.
"and some movement" - scroll down to trans, then to movement, and click something at random. 'Shift rotate left' is a nice simple one.
"added colorfade and voila" - scroll to trans, select colorfade, twiddle a few knobs.
To do the same (or similar) in MD:
Moving Particle - no such thing.
First of all, we don't have particles. Only oscilloscopes. So the closes we come is setting to wave type 0 (circular oscilloscope), and set the mystery parameter (which for this wave type changes the radius of the circle) to something which will give us a small circle.
To then make it move, in a similar fashion to the AVS particle, we would set the position X and Y co-ordinates in the menu to 0.5, and then go to the per-frame equations, and put in something like this:
wave_x = wave_x + 0.3*( 0.6*sin(1.456*time) + 0.4*sin(2.423*time) );
wave_y = wave_y + 0.3*( 0.6*sin(1.758*time) + 0.4*sin(2.139*time) );
This would make the waveform move around in a seemingly random pattern. I notice that the amplitude of the AVS moving particle changes with the volume of the playing music - I've been meaning to do this for MD for a while now, but haven't gotten around to it yet. It's actually a reasonable amount of code to keep it smooth.
Right, so we have an approximation to the "moving particle". Next:
"some movement" - In my example, this is simple. Got to the motion menu, and set x translation to -0.01 or so.
"add colorfade" - this is one thing that AVS can do that MD can definitely NOT do - which is control the fading pattern. In AVS, it's possible to make red fade to blue fade to gree, and then fade to black. In MD, everything fades straight to black. You have control over how long it tkes, but that's all. To compensate, we can readily change the colour of the waveform - simply add equations to per-frame similar to those above, but using wave_r, _g, and _b instead of _x and _y.
And that's the MD equivalent of the preset you were talking about. You want different movement? put in warp, or zoom, or rot, or a combination of all of them. More complex still? From there, you have to program things yourself. These usually involve changing a value over time, or having it change with the music, or with relative position of screen (the per-pixel stuff).
If you're curious as to how some of the presets are working, head over to the milkdrop preset forum (forum #84), where I have a couple tutorials I've written. There will be more following those, when I get a chance. Maybe it'll help explain how simple things are done in MD.
- Krash
And I'm still not seeing anything in your presets... could I be doing something wrong?
when i made my first avs preset i took a moving particle and some movement, then i added colorfade and voila my first preset.In some ways, yes. The way I think of it, is that it's more complicated to do a simple effect in MD than it is in AVS, but for remotely complex stuff (like rotating around a corner of the screen), the opposite is true.
but with md it's more complicated.
To take your example of your first AVS preset:
"You took a moving particle" - meaning that you clicked add effect, scrolled down to render, then to moving particle.
"and some movement" - scroll down to trans, then to movement, and click something at random. 'Shift rotate left' is a nice simple one.
"added colorfade and voila" - scroll to trans, select colorfade, twiddle a few knobs.
To do the same (or similar) in MD:
Moving Particle - no such thing.
First of all, we don't have particles. Only oscilloscopes. So the closes we come is setting to wave type 0 (circular oscilloscope), and set the mystery parameter (which for this wave type changes the radius of the circle) to something which will give us a small circle.
To then make it move, in a similar fashion to the AVS particle, we would set the position X and Y co-ordinates in the menu to 0.5, and then go to the per-frame equations, and put in something like this:
wave_x = wave_x + 0.3*( 0.6*sin(1.456*time) + 0.4*sin(2.423*time) );
wave_y = wave_y + 0.3*( 0.6*sin(1.758*time) + 0.4*sin(2.139*time) );
This would make the waveform move around in a seemingly random pattern. I notice that the amplitude of the AVS moving particle changes with the volume of the playing music - I've been meaning to do this for MD for a while now, but haven't gotten around to it yet. It's actually a reasonable amount of code to keep it smooth.
Right, so we have an approximation to the "moving particle". Next:
"some movement" - In my example, this is simple. Got to the motion menu, and set x translation to -0.01 or so.
"add colorfade" - this is one thing that AVS can do that MD can definitely NOT do - which is control the fading pattern. In AVS, it's possible to make red fade to blue fade to gree, and then fade to black. In MD, everything fades straight to black. You have control over how long it tkes, but that's all. To compensate, we can readily change the colour of the waveform - simply add equations to per-frame similar to those above, but using wave_r, _g, and _b instead of _x and _y.
And that's the MD equivalent of the preset you were talking about. You want different movement? put in warp, or zoom, or rot, or a combination of all of them. More complex still? From there, you have to program things yourself. These usually involve changing a value over time, or having it change with the music, or with relative position of screen (the per-pixel stuff).
If you're curious as to how some of the presets are working, head over to the milkdrop preset forum (forum #84), where I have a couple tutorials I've written. There will be more following those, when I get a chance. Maybe it'll help explain how simple things are done in MD.
- Krash
it's the menu in md, i just don't like it
maybe because avs menu is beginners and so simple
i have been spoiled by it
but i read the md-help, (i agree with some ppl, it has to be a better guide to avs then what it says on the development pages)
it helped me alot but i still find md complicated because in avs you have limits (it's a good/bood thing), in md you have to make so much options to make the preset look good.
the reason i feel like md is not as userfriendly is because even though i made presets for avs in almost 2 years i still found the language used in md so advanced, it's not like avs at all.
maybe that's the thing, i don't know, what do y'all think
maybe because avs menu is beginners and so simple
i have been spoiled by it
but i read the md-help, (i agree with some ppl, it has to be a better guide to avs then what it says on the development pages)
it helped me alot but i still find md complicated because in avs you have limits (it's a good/bood thing), in md you have to make so much options to make the preset look good.
the reason i feel like md is not as userfriendly is because even though i made presets for avs in almost 2 years i still found the language used in md so advanced, it's not like avs at all.
maybe that's the thing, i don't know, what do y'all think
Perhaps you have an outdated AVS (the latest is 2.5.0), grab the latest Winamp to upgrade.
I also had a few problems with some AVS stuff Krash, especially with the ones that yodhe posted, I think they have to be directly in the AVS directory (I unzipped them to a separate folder with the /plugins/avs directory). A couple of them still don't seem to show up properly though.... as unconed said, grab Winamp v2.78 which comes with the latest version of AVS and this might help...
In regards to the "test avi/avs" presets I put up, I have found that you need to put the animation files (avi's) into the avs directory in you winamp folder to get them to work, along preferably with the presets. That should work.
Haha! You thought this thread was dead, didn't you?
If anyone's interested, I've written a MilkDrop analogue to AVS's Moving particle - head over to the MilkDrop preset forums ( http://64.12.38.241/forumdisplay.php?forumid=84 ), and read the topic called Indecisive Movement. I suggest you check out Rainpainting as well. Both of them show some of the versatility that can be programmed in MilkDrop. I don't doubt that AVS could probably do these effects also, but this is just a couple more feathers in my cap =P
- Krash
If anyone's interested, I've written a MilkDrop analogue to AVS's Moving particle - head over to the MilkDrop preset forums ( http://64.12.38.241/forumdisplay.php?forumid=84 ), and read the topic called Indecisive Movement. I suggest you check out Rainpainting as well. Both of them show some of the versatility that can be programmed in MilkDrop. I don't doubt that AVS could probably do these effects also, but this is just a couple more feathers in my cap =P
- Krash
Krash mate I don't think that they are interested.
I mean there are only 10 downloads for that pack I painstakingly posted and you added descriptions for and one of those d/l was you. 😉
Funniest thing is that some of the new stuff has probably surpassed some that now.
And still no comments, Sorry UnConeD had a reply (when pushed😉). They raised the thread and it is just us MDers replying on it. I would have thought that they would have at least have a go using it.
🙁
I mean there are only 10 downloads for that pack I painstakingly posted and you added descriptions for and one of those d/l was you. 😉
Funniest thing is that some of the new stuff has probably surpassed some that now.
And still no comments, Sorry UnConeD had a reply (when pushed😉). They raised the thread and it is just us MDers replying on it. I would have thought that they would have at least have a go using it.
🙁