GabboRasta

8th April 2002 02:07 UTC

very slow...why?
I have a P4 1500 with 256 mb RAM and 3D prophet 4500. WHY my avs plug ins runs so slow?! AVS use my video card or only CPU? there's a setting for this?
thanks!
peace and love,
gabbo

Rovastar

8th April 2002 03:33 UTC

AVS just uses the CPU.

AVS always runs slow.

You need a faster CPU. Try reducing the res and/or turning pixel doubling on (making it run at half res)

Nic01

8th April 2002 23:09 UTC

Whoa... you have almost 3x my processor speed...

To me, 4-10 FPS is regular speed, and more than that, it's fast :p
Trust me, one day you'll find slow framerate to be better... (Gives you more time to [sarcasm] drool, realize you're drooling, then look again[/sarcasm] or just to have more time to enjoy the beauty...)

What window resolution ya using? I used 328x328 (gonna soon change to 330x330,320x320, or 300x300 tho)

328x328 is optimal window size for me... since you have a fast processor, 400x400 should be good enough.

ryan

9th April 2002 05:08 UTC

I run mine in a window =)

Illusion

10th April 2002 13:44 UTC

I get about 4 - 10 FPM (Frames Per Minute) ;)

ryan

11th April 2002 11:14 UTC

Yeah If AVS had open Gl support it would run perfect on my system...
Cmon Justin =) make it happen.

UnConeD

11th April 2002 12:42 UTC

OpenGL is not some magical potion that instantly speeds up an application. Acceleration something like AVS in hardware is not an easy thing to do, because after all, a 3d card is just a 'dumb' polygon rasterizer. Even the latest vertex and pixel shaders won't help much.

I also know someone (you?) mentioned that OGL was tons better than Direct3D because it was faster: that's probably related to the drivers your manufacturer provides. Of course OGL has many advantages over D3D (cross-platform support, to name one), but in terms of speed they are roughly the same.

ryan

11th April 2002 21:40 UTC

*inserts foot into mouth*

horse-fly

12th April 2002 04:50 UTC

well, use avs at fullscreen, but use it at lower resolutions, not 100000 X 1000000

Rovastar

12th April 2002 13:03 UTC

well, use avs at fullscreen, but use it at lower resolutions, not 200 X 150

UnConeD

12th April 2002 17:50 UTC

Childish
Um excuse me Rovastar... the ironic 'AVS sucks' and 'Milkdrop sucks' discussion was fun, but lately you (and Illusion) have been taking every chance you have to crack down AVS, using exaggerated and/or incorrect arguments.

"I get about 4 FPM (frames per minute)"

"Use a low resolution, not 200 x 150"

"Milkdrop allows you to do your own beat-detection, AVS doesn't"


You don't see *us* doing this in your forum, right? Sorry, but this is just childish. If AVS really was so bad, how come there are tons of AVS presets? Because not everyone wants 1024x768 @ 30fps... and clearly the added possiblities are a valuable trade-off against speed and display resolution.
Sorry if Milkdrop doesn't have the user-base that AVS has, but that's not our fault. Why doesn't Ryan ask Justin to include it in the default Winamp package? And maybe Milkdrop's configuration interface just isn't as accessable as the drag'n'drop interface of AVS.

Comments like those add nothing to the meaningful discussions that we're trying to have here. If you think AVS sucks, why do you spend all that time hanging around here? This is not something I'd expect a forum moderator to do.

Rovastar

12th April 2002 20:51 UTC

Chill UnConeD the above comment was directed at Horse-Fly's
'well, use avs at fullscreen, but use it at lower resolutions, not 100000 X 1000000'

I was simply redressing the balance. It usual for newbies to run graphical programs at a res of 800x600 upward esp if you have a PC built in the last 1 or 2 years. AVS displays all the reses available. it is only natural you do not select the lowest one!
I know why I run any other viz I choose a higher res than 300x400 or something.

AVS is different to all that. People that do not know AVS get understandably very confused with this. Horse-Fly was trying to imply that GabboRasta was being greedy by select massive res when the reality was he probably using a res less then his desktop. A bit harsh I thought.

Take my machine for example. I have a still fairly decent AMD TBird 1.333Ghz. (SO about the same real speed as the GabboRasta)

If I run say your Pack II with 320x240x32 (True no pixel doubling) at Fullscreen with the Rendering Options half way. It never gets above about 12-13fps. Therefore even my sarcastic "Use a low resolution, not 200 x 150" does not seem that far from the truth. SO I am really 'using exaggerated and/or incorrect arguments.'

For a newbie and the even more experienced among us may seem crazy.

I tried to help GabboRasta concerning this in this thread.

So please put these comments in context.
And I do not even mention MilkDrop in all of this.;)

I don't think AVS sucks I still use AVS sometimes. Hell I have about 50 visuals on my machine I write presets/tutorials for R2 and do loads of help with beta testing too and Tripex 3 as well. (These plug-ins do not have to run at 320x240 to get above 30fps. The public will a naturally get confused.)

Sometimes I feel that the AVS community is a little 'sheltered' regarding new stuff. An example of this was the surprise of MilkDrop in our debate on these forums a few months ago now. Most had never even tried it let alone know you create your own effects until that thread was created. And people expect thing to run at a higher res now a days. People, rightly or wrongly, expect to use their 3d cards.

My comments try and reflect this.

I also stick by my beat detection comments. As I have never seen any other beat detection other than the only 'average' built in BPM counter so I presumed that AVS does not do this or people do not understand how to do it. Please show me some.

The only thing that annoys me about AVS is all you lot hogging the new preset section on the website so I cannot see when a new preset is released as it has been flooded with AVS 'plug-ins'.;)

'You don't see *us* doing this in your forum, right?'

Err......I have seen a fair few of *you* on the Smoke forums.......Nuff Said.

'Because not everyone wants 1024x768 @ 30fps'

Are you really saying that you do not want AVS to run at 1024x768@30fps? Come on UnConed you'll love it. If I offered you a nice 2.5Ghz PC now I am sure you would take it.:)

Anything below 20 fps has poor beat detection for a start. A load of other new Plug-ins want you to run them at 60fps+.

Everyone wants things quicker and better. And there is nothing wrong with questioning why something is slow. Hell I hopefully have found a way of increasing MilkDrop’s speed for most presets by up to 20%. This will make things better. Questioning stuff is always good. Too often I have seen answers to questions of ‘it has always done that’ or ‘that is the best we can do’ only for a better solution to be available.

Anyway I digress.

The majority of my posts here are informative and try and help the people.

I thought you would understand that. :confused:

Oh and please not let’s not get personal UnConeD. Keep it friendly.

Rovastar

Scar Da Kookee

12th April 2002 21:38 UTC

I do have to admit, that it is true that most people might have a newer PC, that has a pretty good vid card up and running, that will get milkdrop to run 40+fps.

but i bet the most people lok at AVS and then Look At Milkdrop and say 'What the hell? they look somewhat the same, then why the hell so i get shitty frame rate with AVS at lower resolutions in Windowed mode!' then post threads saying 'why cant AVS be OpenGL rendered??'.

both of you are right:
AVS uses Direct3d/DirectDraw and Milkdrop uses OpenGL rendering, and Milkdrop runs faster at higher resolutions becuase of this.
AVS is Customisable, thus have a shit loads of avs packs for it on winamp.com, Both i think have pretty good beat detection regaurdless of frame rate. Both are good Visualizations, and both are powerful in their own right.

Rovastar

12th April 2002 21:52 UTC

Originally posted by Scarface2k2

both of you are right:
AVS uses Direct3d/DirectDraw and Milkdrop uses OpenGL rendering, and Milkdrop runs faster at higher resolutions becuase of this.
AVS is Customisable, thus have a shit loads of avs packs for it on winamp.com, Both i think have pretty good beat detection regaurdless of frame rate. Both are good Visualizations, and both are powerful in their own right.

UnConeD

12th April 2002 23:25 UTC

Rovastar: if your intentions were to redress the balance, why did you make it sound that even 200x150 was too much? The other quotes I provided were exactly the same (and I feel they were just the same in context as out of context).

We've had this discussion a million times. Yes, AVS would be *better* if it was faster and ran smoother on higher resolutions. But that doesn't mean that it's worthless in its current form... you make it sound as if it is.

I also don't understand this:

If I run say your Pack II with 320x240x32 (True no pixel doubling) at Fullscreen with the Rendering Options half way

ryan

12th April 2002 23:45 UTC

AVS may be more customizable than Milkdrop but AVS is older than Milkdrop [I think] AVS may be better or Milkdrop may be better.. It dosent matter some people like one and some people like another.. BTW UnConeD you shouldnt jump the gun about things like that....... Try and take a joke.. I like AVS and Milkdrop both but Illusion was joking not trying to insult AVS.....
Just my 2 cents....

Later
_________________

Scar Da Kookee

13th April 2002 00:15 UTC

Originally posted by Rovastar


?Errr??:confused: :confused: :confused:

MilKDrop uses DirectX D3D not OpenGL.

Does AVS uses DirectX??

The only reason I posted is because BlurPak2k1 used the smoke forum to ask Ryan Geiss to create a 3D accelerated AVS.

UnConeD

13th April 2002 00:25 UTC

I know... a joke is fun the first time. Continually repeating the same thing isn't. I apologized... but I don't think my post was 'jumping the gun'. That would be like:

Rovastar u sux0rs! AVS is l33t3st plugin it 0wnz milkdrop haha!

:P

Oh by the way BlurPak/Scarface: I just quickly glanced who started the thread to identify it. Oh and changing your nickname is confusing for others... please don't do it often :).

Rovastar

13th April 2002 00:44 UTC

OK when I said *you* in the *'s. It was in the context of *us*. That you mentioned before. I took that to mean the AVS community. That is what I was referring too. That is why I used the *'s. I was quoting you so it stayed in context. OK.

It was not directed at you more at the AVSer's BlurPak2k1/Scarface2k2 (maybe now I feel the same person . \me more confused (posts as I have been writing this it is more clear)) with his unhelpful comments. His latest round was...well....I don't know. :confused:

The majority off my posts are to be helpful (that is how I started when replying to this thread) when posting here occasionally me and you (I thought at least) had a joke about the two systems.

And the 'same as this' same as what mate? There is no ill feeling from my part here.

Just as Horse-Fly's res of '100000 X 1000000' was sarcastic, Mine was too. It was only a little banter.

About my settings I was trying to show people on the board what a newbie’s settings may be. And why there is so much confusion. I am not insulting AVS in this post. Maybe I did not explain that properly.

About the beat detection there are hundred of thousands of presets there. How many do there own beat detection? I have not any so that is why I presume that there was none that you could do yourself. What I said preciously was in response (I believe) to the line-in and not getting the beat. I was saying that there are alternatives available.

I have still to see 20 lines of code working out what the beat is doing.

I know you have tried MD UnConeD but the evidence was in the MD vs AVS thread (A thread started by the AVS community not me) and the number of download of the zip that we created there as to the lack of interest in something new.

As for your packs true most of them (maybe all) cannot be created in MilkDrop but I could also say the same thing about many of my better/complex ones and AVS. You are oversimplifying MilkDrop. They are different they do different things. Just swings and roundabouts really.

A load of post since I started writing this.

Rovastar

BTW I don’t understand ‘net speak’:)

ryan

13th April 2002 01:11 UTC

http://www.geocities.com/mnstr_2000/translate.html may help =)

Rovastar

13th April 2002 01:24 UTC

:)
LOL I did not know such a site existed.

Here is what I say.

In 'advanced' LOL net speak

i |)O |\|0+ \/\/4N+ TO Und3rSt@|\||) nEt $PeA|<. i +|-|i|\||< 1+ 15 pr3t+Y 54|). i @m pr0U|) |\|OT +O |<N0\/\/ It.
T|-|@|\||< J00 @|\|Y\/\/4y i|)1o+!

(EDit Noooooooo it has taught me that l33t means elite I did not know that computer nerd fact.)

Nic01

13th April 2002 02:54 UTC

Ugh, not again...

First of all, I don't have 3d video card... That means Milkdrop v.s. AVS outta my head.

Ok, let's make the rest quickly...

What Framerate ya got? A lot (if not most) of the best presets are unfortunately slow - But it trades off...
4-10 FPS is acceptable, remember that : Otherwise, get used to it! Sides, I can't imagine watching "Zero-G Maze" at high FPS... Remember the name : Zero-G. No gravity... not-so-fast-human-propelled movement...

*Runs to the nearest fallout shelter*

By the way, I'm starting to think this playful tradition is becoming a little not-so-playful...

ryan

13th April 2002 09:05 UTC

[]=[]/\ l3(_)+ l20\//\ ][ l>0[\]+ [\]33l> +[]=[]3 g3[\]3l2/\+0l2...
\/\/00+!

Translation - Ha Rova I dont need the generator... Woot!

Now on the topic...

By the way, I'm starting to think this playful tradition is becoming a little not-so-playful...

ryan

13th April 2002 13:25 UTC

Yeah.... Lets not take this too far.. This kind of thing happened on the Sony Station beetween 2 games 1. Tanarus and 2. Infantry they were spamming (well a few of the imature(spelling?) ones and it go really old Sony reps had to step in on it... Well the sony reps for the games......

Scar Da Kookee

13th April 2002 16:11 UTC

Originally posted by UnConeD
Oh by the way BlurPak/Scarface: I just quickly glanced who started the thread to identify it. Oh and changing your nickname is confusing for others... please don't do it often :).

Jaheckelsafar

14th April 2002 06:36 UTC

Well, Skarface2k2, I gotta say that you icon really matches the name.

Tried Milk drop, didn't like it. To me a lot of the presets looked the same. I can say the same thing about AVS, but with AVS there is a whole lot more that things can look like. :p Either is fine if it floats your boat.

I must agree a with Unconed though, I tire of the jabs, in both direction, a mite.

BTW, Idiot, you missed a 'but' in your translation. :p

ryan

14th April 2002 12:08 UTC

BTW, Idiot, you missed a 'but' in your translation. :p

horse-fly

16th April 2002 01:30 UTC

lol, calm down people.

If you can find a screen with 1000000 X 10000000 reso, then everything looks small and crappy anyways

Look, i got my avatar to work

mucks

17th April 2002 09:45 UTC

ballance?
huh..where did gabborasta get help here?
i mean normaly with life you ask and recieve...when it goes to negation and frightening the ballance can't work well..isn't that truth?

yeah the subject here were to know if there were any way to get quality of speed and to frame per frame..

you looks like old peoples fighting cause of the one stolen lolipop in their childhood.....

ok...blame me if i'm wrong but the matter in aid is to aid when you've got a restaurent..and fight in the backroom...how'll the hungry one in the main room will get fed up?

sad isn't it.....

so then.....there should be an alternative farther than inside the software..

like if you ask yourself to help yourself you won't go thus the limit

if you ask your pals it's gona make twice the needed

(this is to compare avs that got options and drivers/stuff)

so if there is an alternative other than changing resolution

(when i run my own avs in 320-x it goes about half a frame per second to 2 and i says truth...i'd be glad to get more quality too

(ah yeah and the colorfading goes unfluid and it's ugly in lowres)



so to conclude it

i'm a fool who loves angry and happy peoples , the high and the low
and i think that if you're angry about someone you just have to tell him in private (this is old of hundreds of undreds)


so see ya

Scar Da Kookee

17th April 2002 13:19 UTC

point taken, the guy really didnt get much help in this thread...

Jaheckelsafar

17th April 2002 18:05 UTC

In all farness, there wasn't much help to give. Rovastar gave pretty all the help anyone could give.

mucks

18th April 2002 00:31 UTC

overlay rocks
hey when i use the sames presets in overlay at 520-x it goes half smooth (a bit of clipping but it''s still greater

Rovastar

18th April 2002 00:49 UTC

Yeah I GabboRasta was helped out as much as possibel I thought. I thought I was being nice to him.:)

I just hope he hasn't got the 'notification by email' switch on. :)