will

18th May 2005 22:42 UTC

AVS has been made open source!
A sourceforge project is in the process of being created.

If you want to be added to this as a developer (when sf approves the it) please post here with your sourceforge username.

I'm not going to take an active role in this project, I've just been pursuaded by Cody to start it up. Heh.

If you want to start tinkering now, the homepage is here: http://www.nullsoft.com/free/avs/

However, please hold off on making any (big/important) changes until we have some kind of sourceforge-based source control going.

Lots of love,

Will

Boktor

18th May 2005 23:04 UTC

Hurray!!

S-uper_T-oast

19th May 2005 02:40 UTC

Wow, time to go find all those posts that said AVS WILL NEVER BECOME OPEN SOURCE and laugh hysterically. This could mean some good things if people can use this well. I might actually start taking the time to learn to use the new features and start AVSing again. :D

MaTTFURY

19th May 2005 03:29 UTC

HOOOOOOOORAH!!!!!

Jaak

19th May 2005 05:58 UTC

W0000T!










...and now?

jheriko

19th May 2005 07:54 UTC

i will look at this when i finish work today.

stupid real life... so time consuming :)

EDIT: sf username jheriko

mysterious_w

19th May 2005 08:30 UTC

Originally posted by Yathosho 9 Aug 2004
..and why don't you just let it die

s_kupers

19th May 2005 08:30 UTC

Well, this was certainly unexpected :) .

TomyLobo

19th May 2005 08:46 UTC

my sf username is tomylobo

Zevensoft

19th May 2005 09:10 UTC

Ooh yeah!

* pelvic thrusts in the general direction of AVS

sf username zevensoft

times2

19th May 2005 10:55 UTC

no way!
this is awesome.

my top 5 new feature wishlist:-

non-realtime output
double buffering on overlay while the editor is open
visualisation that runs while the GUI is being accessed
AVS as a plugin in other realtime/ non realtime packages
DV support

thanks boktor for showing me this!
i might even come out of 'retirement'...

T

Jaak

19th May 2005 12:32 UTC

somebody sticky this




btw... my sf username is 'Jaak-' (yes... the '-' is supposed to be there... basterds usin' MY name!!1one1)

Warrior of the Light

19th May 2005 12:34 UTC

/grabs his C books

Free beer in the internet café for everyone

But Jaak is right...

A plan is needed to go on from.. or else we will have 30 different and uncompatible versions of vis_avs.dll

Jaak

19th May 2005 13:10 UTC

you more like need 'C for dark voodoo magicians'

PAK-9

19th May 2005 13:30 UTC

We're through the looking glass people...

I thought this day would never come, and now its here *sniff*, its beautiful man, just beautiful.

my sf username is 'pak-9'

and for some reason I can seem to download that avs_src.zip that will linked to.

Jaak

19th May 2005 13:34 UTC

Originally posted by PAK-9
and for some reason I can seem to download that avs_src.zip that will linked to.

PAK-9

19th May 2005 13:35 UTC

sweet, thanky thanky

duo

19th May 2005 14:34 UTC

Never thought I would read that :)

Zen-X

19th May 2005 15:30 UTC

Sweet, first job; add AVStrans / Glob variables to main dll...

Although will winamp be updated with it (unlikely) or will every pack wanting to use the new AVS have to include the required vis_avs.dll with it? In which case what sort version control will there be?

I know there aren't any answers to these questions, just thinking through text.

Peace

zen-x

[Ishan]

19th May 2005 16:24 UTC

*jawdrops* whoa. I cant believe this finally happened. Although i'm not so good with programming, i can imagine the possibilities of an Open Source AVS. Hopefully someone from the many talented programmers here would make the one wish we've always been waiting for, Make AVS faster...maybe with hardware acceleration.

^..^

19th May 2005 18:16 UTC

i guess we'll have to wait for that a bit longer.
But including some common ape's into AVS itslef seems much more likely to me.

But whatever you want to happen first, my main/only wish would be, that avs stays 'straight'. It'd be awfully bad if we had thousands of different crappy versions. So perhaps/hopefully/PLEASE new winamp-releases could contain the last (finished) open-source-AVS??

(also i'm holding back with my wishes, cause i most probably won't be able to support this project much. :( )

justin

19th May 2005 18:47 UTC

Will and I will be opening and managing a sourceforge.net project, which will hopefully be the mainline version.
Or something...

-Justin

PAK-9

19th May 2005 19:39 UTC

Had a bit of a lookie, bit gutted it wont compile under .NET, but it could be changed to do so (I hate the VC6 interface)

Gotta keep an eye on sourceforge, are you going to post here when its set up?

will

20th May 2005 00:33 UTC

werd.

The reason we're setting up a sourceforge page is to try to keep the project in one piece rather than several forks. Also, to FINALLY give everyone else a chance to catch up =)

S-uper_T-oast

20th May 2005 05:57 UTC

This is like a highschool reunion or something. All these people are popping out of the wood work... this is a very good day. :D

TomyLobo

20th May 2005 07:02 UTC

yeah duo, zen-x where have you been? and what makes you pop up all of a sudden? :D

Rovastar

20th May 2005 15:33 UTC

Originally posted by Zen-X
Sweet, first job; add AVStrans / Glob variables to main dll...

Although will winamp be updated with it (unlikely) or will every pack wanting to use the new AVS have to include the required vis_avs.dll with it? In which case what sort version control will there be?

I know there aren't any answers to these questions, just thinking through text.

Peace

zen-x

^..^

20th May 2005 15:43 UTC

appreciate that! :up:

MaTTFURY

20th May 2005 19:39 UTC

does this mean the libvisual project is gone?

TomyLobo

20th May 2005 23:29 UTC

nope, libvisual is dedicated to a totally different cause: giving visualization plugins an interface to build upon while libvisual takes care of the player and maybe even OS support

Mr_Nudge

21st May 2005 06:46 UTC

it's about time too!! i think the most needed addition, although it would be the most complicated is hardware support

hboy

21st May 2005 12:18 UTC

omg these are really huge and complicated for my tiny brain :D

[Ishan]

22nd May 2005 16:04 UTC

*cough*hardware support*cough*

so...when does the real work start?

zamuz

22nd May 2005 20:36 UTC

huge news. but, just as we've been patiently waiting for avs to become open source, we should be just as patient when it comes to its development. i'm no expert, but i'm pretty sure adding hardware acceleration support is a pretty complicated process, so let's remember codemonkeys are human, and cut em some slack ;)

UnConeD

22nd May 2005 22:04 UTC

Adding hardware acceleration to AVS wouldn't be a good idea. And a duplication of effort.

Yathosho

23rd May 2005 10:37 UTC

Originally posted by ^..^
But whatever you want to happen first, my main/only wish would be, that avs stays 'straight'. It'd be awfully bad if we had thousands of different crappy versions. So perhaps/hopefully/PLEASE new winamp-releases could contain the last (finished) open-source-AVS??

jheriko

23rd May 2005 14:29 UTC

I think the real thing will be maintaining avs and not expanding it too drastically. fixing the bugs and removing the poor UI design choices etc...

that and hardware would do little for avs. it certainly cant be added to existing components like superscope..

will

23rd May 2005 14:38 UTC

Homepage at http://www.nullsoft.com/free/avs/

goebish

23rd May 2005 16:00 UTC

Count me in to replace render/avi by VfxAviPlayer.ape and keep compatibility with presets using the previous one.
I could also improve my addborder.ape as it is used in lots of presets packs.

sf nick: goebish

TomyLobo

23rd May 2005 16:39 UTC

yeah what about setting the width of the border relative to the whole image or in pixels

goebish

23rd May 2005 17:13 UTC

Why not :)

TomyLobo

23rd May 2005 19:03 UTC

i mean in numbers, not with borky sliders ;)

beeferoni

25th May 2005 01:23 UTC

:winamp: Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly does open source mean? I can surmise from this thread that it means great things are in store for AVS and that changes can be made to the structure, but how does it work? Under whose/what direction will it be, and will changes be possible to the original source files, or will it just be additions to the existing structure? Thanks for any info you can give me.:up:

UnConeD

25th May 2005 04:42 UTC

beeferoni: google for "free software foundation" "gnu" "open-source" "richard m stallman" to learn all about the magical world of free software.

Just avoid the legal bits.

Rovastar

25th May 2005 13:21 UTC

UnConeD as you know 'free' software is a very different thing to 'open source'. Persoanly I would have liked to have seen a special license for AVS/MilkDrop wher it can only be used within the confines of Winamp.

PAK-9

25th May 2005 15:12 UTC

Originally posted by UnConeD
Adding hardware acceleration to AVS wouldn't be a good idea. And a duplication of effort.

Jaak

25th May 2005 18:45 UTC

Originally posted by Rovastar
UnConeD as you know 'free' software is a very different thing to 'open source'. Persoanly I would have liked to have seen a special license for AVS/MilkDrop wher it can only be used within the confines of Winamp.

CraigF

25th May 2005 23:56 UTC

waiting on the project being accepted.... it was applied for a few days ago. sf must be slow these days

beeferoni

26th May 2005 03:14 UTC

*Has Googled open source* Oh wow! That is great news indeed. Rovastar, I can see where 'open source' and 'free' wouldn't necessarily be the same in regards to software, but isn't the 'spirit' of open source to make it easily accessible in most ways (including in monetary terms) to all users?

TomyLobo

26th May 2005 04:55 UTC

he meant the other direction...
free means doesnt mean open source in a lot of cases

also, coned write "free software foundation" and not "free software"
FSF are the guys that maintain GPL (prolly the most well-known open-source license) and the other GNU stuff

sidd

26th May 2005 14:50 UTC

sf: george_dickeson

Wow.. I spend a month or two away from the community after several years of active participation, and lo and behold, they make it open source. Looks like i'll have to start spending more time on irc again too ;]

It also seems like the community has been growing while i have been gone, so hopefully we will have a few extra coders on board.

Can't wait to see what people have in mind to get started, I know there are a number of features that people are already itching to add.

ohh.. It's nice to be back :D

/me opens up irc

MaTTFURY

27th May 2005 12:18 UTC

if you want to know what open-source is just try a linux OS..

TomyLobo

27th May 2005 22:12 UTC

the linux OS
or
a linux distribution

also, that's not really the fastest way of getting a grasp of open source

Jaak

27th May 2005 22:17 UTC

indeed






and there still isnt sf thingy up... or am i missing it?

jheriko

28th May 2005 12:40 UTC

I find this amusing. Like most of the population here, I got the meaning of the words 'open source' about 99% right the first ever time i heard them without looking anything up. It describes itself amazingly well in those to words imo..

jaak, i havent seen a sf project either. just holden's dead MVS.

^..^

28th May 2005 12:49 UTC

Originally posted by jheriko
I find this amusing. Like most of the population here, I got the meaning of the words 'open source' about 99% right the first ever time i heard them without looking anything up. It describes itself amazingly well in those to words imo..

Magic.X

31st May 2005 19:53 UTC

Wow! Never believed that'd come true.

I'll try to conhtribute something for sure, maybe a direktly included, ready-to-use vj-interface... ;)

beeferoni

31st May 2005 21:24 UTC

*Has taken offense* Jeez, sorry I didn't know what open source meant! What a jerk I am. I am a 'native speaker' but I am not necessarily computer savvy on every point. Yes, I suppose I am taking this personally, but I AM the one who asked...:D:p

(directed primarily at jheriko and ^..^)

^..^

31st May 2005 21:34 UTC

Originally posted by beeferoni
*Has taken offense*

beeferoni

31st May 2005 21:43 UTC

No, no of course not. I know you didn't mean it that way. I bet jheriko did, though!):pjust kidding, j! I think I need it explained in plain terms though, maybe? I mean I have an overall 'feel' of what it is, but I want to be clear. Can't anyone sum up open source in a few sentences? not taken from a web site I mean. Layman's terms. 'Open source definitions for dummies'? lol:D

Warrior of the Light

31st May 2005 22:07 UTC

A program is created, or written,coded, in a certain language that can be converted to a language the computer understands.

AVS is mainly written in the language C++. Once finished, the computer does not know what to do with it so it has to be converted first (compiled) so the computer understands.
Like translating english to japanese.

The written text is called the sourcecode. A normal program (.exe) does only have the compiled information. That's useless for a programmer.
(yes, there are tools to calculate it back a bit but that's always horribly messy and noone likes to go there unless their lives depend on it)

A programmer needs the information the original programmer wrote. That information's called the sourcecode.
To see the sourcecode that created this webpage for example, click on [view]>[source] in your browser.

If the original information is not available, then it's called closed source.
If the original information is available, then it's called open source.

simple as that :p

Another example: AVS visualizations are open-source; you can edit them in the editor window.
WMP visualizations are closed-source. You cannot edit them. (AFAIK)

/welcome back on board, Magic.X!

goebish

1st June 2005 00:21 UTC

hyeah welcome back Magic.X
I would be pleased to give you a hand (and some brain pieces) on this Vj part ;)

beeferoni

1st June 2005 03:48 UTC

Excellent, WoTL, thank you very much. That is indeed simple enough.:up:

Shock Value

3rd June 2005 22:40 UTC

I saw this on Slashdot and thought, wow, I need to get back to AVS, especially since all kinds of awesome stuff will be coming now that it is open source. I will be keeping a close eye on developments and just may have to release a new pack. :)

Jaak

4th June 2005 10:42 UTC

slashdot? where?

Yathosho

4th June 2005 14:11 UTC

/.

Jaak

4th June 2005 20:58 UTC

oh, right... missed that one

beeferoni

5th June 2005 03:16 UTC

Wow, that would be so cool if Shock value reappeared and released a pack! I am just a hack, but I know enough to know that sv's presets were/are the shizznit.

times2

7th June 2005 19:55 UTC

project open?
Does anyone know if the AVS sourceforge project is active yet?

A search for 'AVS' just yields a lot of projects purporting to be the 'ultimate replacement for avs' which have released no files and have been flagged inactive by sourceforge!

T

gordmoo

11th June 2005 01:57 UTC

WU-pixels in the superscope code would be nice, especially as the abstract nature of the floating point screen is what WU-pixels were invented for.

and perhaps a better texterII renderer. and yea i realise thats mr unconneds work but it ships with winamp now yea?

but personally i think the main avs system should stick to making innovative the avs system to allow you to have as much control over your avs's as possible and still be able to be creative, and not just give you a load of ape's that clog things up and do everything for you in a simple way :).

improve it, don't break and make a big mess of it like a few other sf projects iv seen :)

Yathosho

11th June 2005 13:09 UTC

Re: project open?

Originally posted by times2
Does anyone know if the AVS sourceforge project is active yet?

Zen-X

19th June 2005 16:29 UTC

SF online
The SF project is now online...

https://sourceforge.net/projects/avs/

My sf name is zen-x -shockingly.

jheriko

28th June 2005 20:16 UTC

sweet... its a shame i lost my development platform a couple of days ago.. will be back soon tho :)

carmatic

10th July 2005 13:19 UTC

Originally posted by TomyLobo
the linux OS
or
a linux distribution

also, that's not really the fastest way of getting a grasp of open source

goebish

10th July 2005 13:28 UTC

I would have no reason to keep xp on my laptop wich is mostly used for visuals if avs runs fine with overlay on secondary monitor (TV out) ;)

Warrior of the Light

10th July 2005 22:06 UTC

When using Windows and only for AVS, I still highly recommend win98se instead of XP. Simply the fastest.

> seemingly less crashes

> all APE's work

>...

Zen-X

10th July 2005 22:46 UTC

Originally posted by carmatic
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-s...l#relationship maybe this will be the faster way of getting a grasp of open source?

speaking of linux, i fully trust that i have no longer any reason to keep windows xp on my small computer which is only used for vizualizations??

Jaak

11th July 2005 21:52 UTC

actually, people are working on avs rewrite (for libvisual, which means avs will be cross platform, on the negative side, all apes will most likely need rewrite aswell).
I could say maybe in moth or two there is something ready. It's taking so long because libvisual need some more schizzle on its own (audio rewrite, complete windows port, script... which is supposedly almost ready).
It wasn't intended to replace avs or anything, but never know...

TomyLobo

12th July 2005 03:55 UTC

Originally posted by Warrior of the Light
When using Windows and only for AVS, I still highly recommend win98se instead of XP. Simply the fastest.

> seemingly less crashes

> all APE's work

>...

carmatic

12th July 2005 11:01 UTC

so uhh is libvisual that linux thing that allows you to play milkdrop stuff? now that avs is open source the libvisual people will go in and put avs into libvisual as well?

::edit:: ok by now i think i sound like im not gonna be much help with doing anything serious with avs, and well, i really cant...

will

13th July 2005 22:36 UTC

ok i've added a couple of you to the project and added the source to the cvs

Jaak

14th July 2005 23:14 UTC

aaaw... got files but no CVS!

[edit]
actually, i can't seem to have access to files either. Darn sourceforge!

Boktor

26th August 2005 11:55 UTC

The sourceforge page looks rather quiet.
Is something happening?

In what way is help needed?
Should an Open-AVS promotion campaign be started?
Are the most recent course codes of the APEs available at sourceforge?
What programming-skills are wanted?
What are we waiting for?
etc.

jheriko

15th September 2005 12:35 UTC

HELLO!!!! CAN WE DO SOMETHING PLEASE!!!

is this ever going to go anywhere?

CraigF

15th September 2005 12:43 UTC

you mean uploading the code to sourceforge? will accidentally uploaded it into the mlipod project. :drool:

DrO

15th September 2005 13:38 UTC

Originally posted by jheriko
HELLO!!!!... is this ever going to go anywhere?

zamuz

16th September 2005 00:17 UTC

i'm pretty sure that like half of the people that wanted avs open sourced weren't the coders of the community, including me, it was just something we saw as the only light in the future of avs. now it's up to the people who know about the programming side, but then again most of us have a life to, well, live.

i chose to be patient. i never saw open source avs coming, and it happened. i don't see development coming anytime soon, so i'm expecting a surprise :)

MaTTFURY

19th September 2005 03:45 UTC

I've already started on some c/c++ coding experience of fun! o_O

PAK-9

19th September 2005 15:58 UTC

I'm on the edge of my seat matt

goebish

19th September 2005 16:40 UTC

Can we say printf("hello world"); is fun ?

TomyLobo

24th September 2005 07:47 UTC

/me pokes pak-9 off his seat

Emperor Xóbel

3rd October 2005 05:10 UTC

I gotta agree with carmatic and jaak and say that winamp is the most major thing keeping me with windows. I'd much rather linux, but would miss winamp and visualisations. I'm sure there are other vis' for linux (libvisual?) but if avs and winamp existed for linux it'd be the shizzy yo. Of course, I'm a noob in the world of html, let alone c++ lol. If i ever learn though, I'd be helping! I know its an unreasonable request and codemonkeys are indeed only human, but hardware acceleration would be awesome. I have a sweet graphics card that doesn't get used cuz i'm not a gamer. Too bad. Go team winamp!

jheriko

8th October 2005 01:14 UTC

i think everyone has been playing with this on their own and not releasing forks because forks are bad. i'll admit i've done about zero playing...

sorry for not checking up on this thread regularly... i really should make more effort since i like to think i am some kind of r33tar codemonkey :)

MaTTFURY

8th October 2005 03:13 UTC

Go team winamp

Emperor Xóbel

10th October 2005 03:18 UTC

I don't think I'd look good in a cheerleaders outfit. Fuck I don't even think cheerleaders look good in cheerleaders outfits. (Better out of them)....

sidd

26th October 2005 11:24 UTC

Looks like this thread is about where it was when i last checked (a while ago now).

I have a lot of time on my hands now, so I'm going run through the code and start commenting it and making it more accessable to all those out there that want to do something (and also so I can get my head around it).

I think if we managed to get it working as its own application, and ported to linux, it could take off. I say that because linux, with all its driver issues, can't get enough of software rendering apps. So it's a match made in heaven really :)

At the moment it uses some assembler features and other things that are dependent on the MS VC++ compiler, and at a quick glance, there seem to be winamp SDK stuff used all the way through it, so it cleaning it out could mean a lot of work.

Anyway, if anyone else has some immediate ideas, or has already started playing with it, please post here and let us know.

gordmoo

27th October 2005 03:36 UTC

its great that avs is open source but you can't just magically expect some myserious strangers to start hacking up code and creating what you have allways dreamed of. in its current form its pritty unworkable, tied into too many systems.

if someone were to work on the systems involved and make it into some nice clean code that you could, for example easly modify to work with something like XMMS on linux, im sure that then, the prospect of working on something, not just to port it to diffirent systems. but also to improve avs would be much more attractive.

---
also, i apologise for the overuse of comma's there.. tis very late ;)

TomyLobo

28th October 2005 01:23 UTC

it's gonna take a neurosurgeon to take all those winamp parts out of AVS's brain
but the major problem will be to make the evallib portable while keeping it fast

gordmoo: your PED pack is a bomb :)

sidd

28th October 2005 06:26 UTC

Yeah, I think we were all let down a little when we the source was released. I think I was expecting it to be all commented and clean and majikally easy to port. :]

You are right that evallib will be a problem, and not just for architecture; it will take a lot of messing around for it to even compile on anything but msvc++ (which i don't have access to).

MaTTFURY

29th October 2005 06:12 UTC

Maybe if we wanted some more help we could link it up with the xmms project eh? I know Jheriko is starting to get into some linux c/c++ coding ...

gordmoo

1st November 2005 11:34 UTC

yea i wish my pack was a bomb mr tomylobo, fireworks night is coming up and iv totally forgot ;) .. gotta have something to explode, im thinkin really shaking up a beer can and creative use of a torch might fool at least someone...

the xmms project peoples are kinda weird though.. i meen, they are kinda some people who made a program for windows 3.1 but refused to update it to windows 9x or something. they won't even update to GTK2, so the menus n stuff look awful for lots. the BMPx peoples seem nice though.. once they have some stable code anyway.

i think maybe the evalib design needs to be rethought.. when you make code thats designed to be portable its usually simple and eligant.. and therefor, reasonably fast. when you make things to work on windows they are generally hacked up to bits to make it fit with the Win32 api.

if someone got it too compile on systems other than windows and vc++ id love to take a shot and hacking some stuff, right now the only copy of vc++ i have is way old.. and not quite.. legal. so i do all my coding with eclipse, gcc, make and the like on linux. plus, vc++ isn't very good.

OnionRingOfDoom

16th November 2005 03:33 UTC

I have come out of the woodwork to say: holy hijola!

jheriko

25th November 2005 12:29 UTC

I don't think this is going far. I have little interest anymore... I have started working on Fridge, when its done AVS will look redundant... we hope :)

http://fridge.acko.net

It makes more sense (at least to me) to start again from scratch without making the bad design choices that have made people complain about AVS. (e.g. cross-platform, 3d hardware)

gordmoo

26th November 2005 21:57 UTC

i was thinking about setting something like that up but there are some problems, such as making a cross platform program that needs to be very very very quick.. but doesn't use assembly, using say mmx instructions for x86 processors and using c routines for ppc and the like isn't a good idea because it makes the ppc ports practically useless.

if your serious about it though, id love to help out :)

Jaak

1st December 2005 19:31 UTC

gotdmoo:
fridge wont use cpu to do the rendering, it will take heavy use of gpu. (gf 3 and up except gf4 are supported)

jheriko

3rd December 2005 13:38 UTC

although there is nothing on the fridge site yet. early development has been promising... its certainly not impossible

btw gf4 is supported, but not gf4mx.

JaY FaTBoY

8th December 2005 10:40 UTC

That fridge thing looks interestig /well i've always been into fridges/. As you said - nothing on the site yet. But there is work on that project, right? Cause I don't see any posts in the last few months. Just asking so that i know if the faint treble in me should be allowed to grow into a bell ring or whatever. Sound really excitin, visual stuff has always been me home, but avs doesn't fit me big ass :rolleyes: :o

jheriko

8th December 2005 13:33 UTC

yeah, i really should write something up there, but i have been busy the last couple of days. i'm sure it will be updated soon, but there is no major development, and there are already tons of bugs and issues... but yeah, check it out about once a month and i'm sure you will see it growing slowly until its done :)

JaY FaTBoY

8th December 2005 13:54 UTC

hehe, i will. As of bugs, I am getting paid to find those things so count on me to report these ;):tinfoil:

JFASI

8th December 2005 23:48 UTC

Ho, boy, here they come...

eheiney

28th May 2006 07:59 UTC

Well the source has been out for more than a year now, still nothing. I know Fridge is coming along slowly, what's the word on that?