Archive: Teach me !!!
MaTTFURY
28th October 2004 08:13 UTC
Teach me !!!
here's another stupid question by me: i have searched and there is no topics on "Actual" 3D documents, i dont really understand it...?! HeLP?
NoSmart-Ass Comments Please?!!!! Tuggummi; unconed; jaak; Mr_nudge...etc
please?!
Warrior of the Light
28th October 2004 14:20 UTC
If the tutorials here (El-vis', Atero's, Pak-9's) aren't good enough for you, then you can try what I did: rip apart a preset that does interest you, but doesn't scare you too far off and rip it apart to notepad and figure out what does what.
sidd
29th October 2004 08:04 UTC
stuff close is bigger.
stuff far away is smaller.
MaTTFURY
29th October 2004 08:44 UTC
lol notepad?, and sidd goto hell...
Mr_Nudge
29th October 2004 09:37 UTC
pak-9 did make a tutorial on making 3d superscopes, it has excercises as well.
UnConeD
29th October 2004 10:28 UTC
You can't expect us to start pumping knowledge into year head without some effort on your part.
There have been several 3D tutorials. Sit down and spend some time with them.
PAK-9
29th October 2004 11:01 UTC
Originally posted by sidd/me points at model cow in hand
stuff close is bigger.
stuff far away is smaller.
hboy
29th October 2004 20:09 UTC
:D nice one pakkie :)
Mr_Nudge
30th October 2004 05:01 UTC
yeah, too bad the "/me" thing doesn't work
Tuggummi
30th October 2004 13:24 UTC
I suggest you get a million monkeys to type up random shit for you, eventually they will make the greatest preset ever and meanwhile while you wait they will make some decent stuff too.
Oh well... works for me... *shrug*
Warrior of the Light
30th October 2004 15:59 UTC
Okay, Notepad may be not neccessary. You can also write a AVS-language plugin for a program like Crimson Editor. :igor:
S-uper_T-oast
30th October 2004 17:03 UTC
I would learn you a thing or too, but since you specifically said only a few people can, I guess I'm just making a smart ass coment.
PAK-9
30th October 2004 20:15 UTC
This thread needs to be locked before MaTT-'flame magnet'-FURY gets slaughtered by another barrage of insults.
S-uper_T-oast
31st October 2004 04:59 UTC
I'd like to appologize Matt, sometimes just this random stuff happens when we here are asked questions liked this. As you probably already know their a quite a few threads posted in this fourms that discuss 3D scoping. The finer points do usually seem a bit hard to grasp at first, but a better way to learn how to deal with them is to look at what the other threads say, look at some basic 3D presets, and if all else fails, nicely PM somone who has a very good understanding of the concept. Making a thread with the title TEACH ME!!! is just asking to be flamed, so good luck learning 3D!
//add
Another good thing to do is to search for more then one thing, instead of just searching for 3D Superscopes or something like that, try a bunch of different things like 3D coding, Superscopes, 3D, etc...
MaTTFURY
31st October 2004 05:58 UTC
erm; yeah i didn't notice any links im still waiting for it... lol :) and i did Search, and im trying to be as nice AS FUCKING POSSIBLE;; i dont really understand it though im in grade 10 studying yr 11 maths the quadratics shit... ?
--"whats the basic formula for a Cube in algebra" i ask the teacher she shrugs her shoulders walks off... stupid bitch...
hboy
31st October 2004 11:05 UTC
the basic problem is that the syntax of avs is pretty different from usual coordinate geometry, so asking your teacher who doesn't know it will provide no information.
S-uper_T-oast
31st October 2004 14:45 UTC
There isn't an actual formula for a cube because it's not a function(well, not entirely I guess, there might be some ways to do it with some fancy 3D graphing, but it would still probably require more then one equation or some sort of uber-leetness). In your math you probably graph functions. Things like f(x)=x², or f(x)=ax²+bx+c, as the polynomial form. To make a cube in avs we can do it two ways, we either use a special formula that makes a cube like shape using the concepts of circles with limited points, or we use point-per-point superscoping. Point-per-point scoping involves setting the x,y, and z cordinate manually based on a per-point counter.
::frame::
a=0;
::Pixel::
a=a+1;
x=equal(a,1)*.5+equal(a,2)*.-3...etc
y=equal(a,1)*.5+equal(a,2)*.-3...etc
MaTTFURY
1st November 2004 03:18 UTC
which is better and how do i use it?
S-uper_T-oast
1st November 2004 03:32 UTC
Personally, I think the point-per-point version is better, the main concept behind it is using a custom counter (in my previours example, the variable A), as a custom counter value that will increase by one for each point in the scope. Using the variable A, you can then make set each indidual point to have its own X and Y and Z location. If you understand the basics of how a superscope draws a shape, you should be able to figure out how that works and how to implement that.
PAK-9
1st November 2004 18:06 UTC
Originally posted by hboyActually AVS uses a fairly standard rectangular coordinate system so most geometry translates fairly easily... ask your teacher how to plot a 3D line with right handed coordinates and she'll probably give you some useful information. Then ask her how to use matrices to rotate coordinates in discreet increments and she will probably give you some more useful information.
the basic problem is that the syntax of avs is pretty different from usual coordinate geometry, so asking your teacher who doesn't know it will provide no information.
PAK-9
1st November 2004 18:08 UTC
And they smell
hboy
1st November 2004 19:21 UTC
lol master of the innit :)
Tuggummi
1st November 2004 22:38 UTC
I hate em smelly n00bs... dirty, filthy, animals em n00bs... hate em! :mad:
Lol, nice one pakkie :p
sidd
2nd November 2004 05:40 UTC
yeah i didn't notice any links im still waiting for it... lol and i did Search, and im trying to be as nice AS FUCKING POSSIBLE;;HERE and HERE!!!
sidd
2nd November 2004 05:44 UTC
(from atero's thread)You don't say what you are having trouble with? all we know is that you just dont quite get 3d. Maybe if you could be a little more specific, you might get some real help.
you confused me in the 3D tutorials lol ? little help?
thanks matt
MaTTFURY
4th November 2004 02:43 UTC
all of it
sidd
4th November 2004 05:46 UTC
ARgh. you arn't helping yourself.
Seriously dude. You are a flame magnet. A fucking big-arse pile of dry wood and paper on a really hot day.. or something.
grrr..
If you have seriously tried to make your way through one of the many tutorials that are floating around, then you will have at least made some progress. The basic concepts are not hard at all, providing that you can speak english, which you obviously can.
If you still claim not to have a clue at all, then either: You are a literal vegetable and there is no hope for you at all, or you are flame baiting. Either way, it isnt worth anyones trouble to help you out.
However, if (and i think this is far more likely) you just think you are too good to devout some attention to a generic tutorial, when you really deserve to be given specific help just for you, among the scores of people that come here, then i think you really need to think about what you are asking for.
All you have said is "I NEED HELP WITH 3D". That doesnt tell anyone shit. so please:
Mr_Nudge
5th November 2004 01:23 UTC
have you tried just gradually working up to 3d maths? i mean, i'm in yr 10 doing yr 10 maths and and i can do simple stuff, but eventually, if i work on it long enough i know i'll eventually be able to make the more advanced stuff. That gives me an idea. All you avs "pros" out there go back and look the the very first preset you ever made and and see how your skills have grown. Things like this take time, don't expect to learn 3d in one day!
PAK-9
5th November 2004 12:09 UTC
My first preset was a fully occluded solid 3D scene.
Would you believe a 3D scope?
Would you believe a scope?
okay it was a render-ring and trans-water.
Jaak
5th November 2004 12:53 UTC
Originally posted by sidd
ARgh. you arn't helping yourself.
Seriously dude. You are a flame magnet. A fucking big-arse pile of dry wood and paper on a really hot day.. or something.
grrr..
If you have seriously tried to make your way through one of the many tutorials that are floating around, then you will have at least made some progress. The basic concepts are not hard at all, providing that you can speak english, which you obviously can.
If you still claim not to have a clue at all, then either: You are a literal vegetable and there is no hope for you at all, or you are flame baiting. Either way, it isnt worth anyones trouble to help you out.
However, if (and i think this is far more likely) you just think you are too good to devout some attention to a generic tutorial, when you really deserve to be given specific help just for you, among the scores of people that come here, then i think you really need to think about what you are asking for.
All you have said is "I NEED HELP WITH 3D". That doesnt tell anyone shit. so please:
- Read tutorial(s)
- Have a serious attempt
- Think about where you are stuck
- Come back here and use up your last token on this thread before it is *clunked*. BE SPECIFIC!
Thank you.
Tuggummi
7th November 2004 01:00 UTC
okay it was a render-ring and trans-water.Hmm, that one was my 10-20th (can't remember anymore, because im old and cranky and have sand in my vagina) preset... I guess i suck for making that kind of awesome stuff so late :(
PAK-9
7th November 2004 19:59 UTC
Originally posted by TuggummiYes... you do.
Hmm, that one was my 10-20th (can't remember anymore, because im old and cranky and have sand in my vagina) preset... I guess i suck for making that kind of awesome stuff so late :(
Tuggummi
7th November 2004 22:51 UTC
Yes... you do.I knew it! I fuckiiiiiiinnnng knewwww it! WaaaaaaaaH, i won't make another AVS preset ever again! :( :hang:
S-uper_T-oast
8th November 2004 04:07 UTC
Originally posted by PAK-9LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
My first preset was a fully occluded solid 3D scene.
Would you believe a 3D scope?
Would you believe a scope?
okay it was a render-ring and trans-water.
Mr_Nudge
8th November 2004 11:20 UTC
why doesn't everyone compile their first ever preset into a pack so we can all laugh at eachother??
Warrior of the Light
8th November 2004 14:27 UTC
yea - let's bring out the "AVS Community's first presets pack!"
...
err..
....
err.....
oh well, perhaps it's not such a good idea after all.
(although I did put my first preset in my first (or 1.1st, not sure) pack)
hboy
8th November 2004 20:41 UTC
:D would be indeed nice to see where everyone started ... :giggle:
S-uper_T-oast
9th November 2004 03:04 UTC
I think it would be a good inspirational pack. Everybody puts their first AVS and then put one of their most recent to show how far we have come.
hboy
9th November 2004 06:27 UTC
i have a preset anyway I would never release (cause it is quite unoriginal but looks hella good :)), this could be called as "newest", posting the "oldest" ones is no problem at all :)
Mr_Nudge
9th November 2004 06:44 UTC
i still have my first, although i did only start in april :S
PAK-9
9th November 2004 14:45 UTC
If we did a 'first preset' pack I would just cheat to make myself look good by posting some totally kick-ass preset that clearly wasn't my first.
Who the hell has their first preset still on their computer anyway? It was 5 years ago or something, I think I've formatted 4 times, thrown the hdd away, bought a new one, formatted it at least twice and had to reinstall winamp easily 20 times over that period.
Plus I question the logic of releasing a pack which intentionally contains some of the worst presets ever made. I suppose you could 'remake' the preset rather than just post a good new one... but how do you remake a render ring and trans water?
Tuggummi
9th November 2004 16:25 UTC
Who the hell has their first preset still on their computer anyway?I do. :igor:
but how do you remake a render ring and trans water?With superscope and convolution filter? I've heard talk about a custom water effect, but never seen one actually, it's one of those urban AVS legends :D
Warrior of the Light
9th November 2004 18:28 UTC
I crashed my hdd 4 times (as in one time the hdd laying in two parts litterally, one other time killing my mainboard + processor) re-installed WA at least a zillion times but apart from the presets that were lost due to crashes after 2 hours of work without saving (yea, I know... now) I still have all my presets. Just make sure you have a backup.
for the ring+water thing, it should be possible with a grid-type ssc with per-point colorcoding and n=w*h
Tuggummi
9th November 2004 22:15 UTC
w*h, gee with 280x280 window size that would be only... 78400 numpoints!
I reckon you go with the convo + ssc :p
sidd
10th November 2004 01:07 UTC
my first preset was a joke that i put on my friends computer.. it was some browny-orange fyrwerx, rotoblitter and a render text saying "Jacob's explosive hemorrhoids."
I was 15 :)
Raz
10th November 2004 07:44 UTC
Originally posted by PAK-9A beat responsive torus floating over an intricately designed ocean?
but how do you remake a render ring and trans water?
PAK-9
10th November 2004 10:58 UTC
I'm slightly offended that people think I was asking for technical help on making a ring+water preset. I consider that a severe underestimation of my abilities.
Originally posted by RazNow THATS an idea :D
A beat responsive torus floating over an intricately designed ocean?
Warrior of the Light
10th November 2004 11:41 UTC
Originally posted by PAK-9Then.. How would you do it?
I'm slightly offended that people think I was asking for technical help on making a ring+water preset. I consider that a severe underestimation of my abilities.
sidd
11th November 2004 02:28 UTC
its EASY!
zev has made an h*w superscope water simulator. And then just put in a beat reactive raytraced torus dynamic movement on top.
easy as PIIEEE!
Mr_Nudge
11th November 2004 07:37 UTC
yeah, for nerds not implying that zevensoft's a nerd, just people who think it's easy
PAK-9
11th November 2004 14:55 UTC
h*w is a statement that should never occur in any AVS ever, you never need every pixel to be represented by a point. It would be better to use a texer2 with some dynamic sizing and a dynamic number of points, having a circle as a point instead of a dot or line gives a much nicer look, requires far less points and doesnt introduce 'jaggies' and other bugs when you throw it around a lot.
As for the preset, personally I'd do the opposite of sidd, have a DM for the water and a ssc/texer2 for the ring/torus.
sidd
11th November 2004 15:46 UTC
well, fine, you can do it the lamerz way if you want :D
btw, there are articles popping up all over the net saying that nullsoft is finally well and truely dead. Not that we had hopes of new AVS versions before, but at least this is some confirmation. Didnt think it was worth making a new thread over.
Anyone had any new thoughts towards a new vis program/plugin?
Warrior of the Light
11th November 2004 17:49 UTC
Well, then we could ask Justin personally if he'd hand us the source as Nullsoft is dead anyway...
MaTTFURY
12th November 2004 07:14 UTC
hi & sorry
well, my life consists of next year i AM the pretty amauteur i did these up last week comparison is that my work is all craaap... i cant even get a real girlfriend, im a psychologically confused person; who does web-design and avs for a living including school, at school i just failed my maths quadratics assignment soon coming a maths exam and 4 assignments to hand in on the next week...! i've done most of...! ;) i haven't been to avs 4 a while [ excusing my absences ], next year for #11: ill study IPT (information processing technologies), maths b, physics, bct (business ed:: you get some certificate for it! :D), practial art (i also get a certificate for...), and of course always dreaded english
__
will any of this help, and im having trouble understanding most of the 3D code that was given to me by Jaak [ was a friend :( ] he tryed many times explaining to me the 3D code just liked to say sorry ok ? hope he heard it
he's one of the best friends i HAD!
i'd like to say you guys are harsh on high-school student(s)... im only 15 and AUSTRALIA has the CRAPPEST SCHOOLING!!!!
im now learning php, mySQL, and setting up a server also i wanna study at cisco universities... well this is all i got to say
MaTTFuRY goes and sits in the dark loomy corner now...
attatched 1 avs preset [[beta]] most likely my last...
ill probably goto milkdrop looks like fun!
sidd
12th November 2004 07:50 UTC
look no matter what you want to do, avs, milkdrop, php whatever, you are going to have to learn to have some patience. Your problem seems to pan out like this:
1. you want everything done for you
2. you don't listen to anyone's advice
No one flamed you when you first arived here, but you didn't listen to anyone's advice and kept asking for more, and people(me) got annoyed.
Now, don't take it like im beating you up. Please read my post in its entirety.
Dont worry about the maths, particuarly at school. Keep school and avs completely seperate. The things you will want to know in avs are more related to graphics and programming than they are to maths. Learn at your own pace, and experiment with the superscope.
From looking at your presets (please don't take offense to this) you need to learn the basics before you can rush into 3D geometry. Learning how the 3d presets work will be very difficult for you if you dont completely understand how AVS's scripting language works.
Getting good at avs, or milkdrop for that matter, involves taking a serious interest and developing your skills at your own rate. You actually have to do things on your own! You can't just rely on other people to tell you what to do and how to do it.
So, go on and run off to milkdrop land if you want, but that is your loss. And i dont just mean because milkdrop is so rediculously inferior, i mean because you have given up so easily. If you go off to think MD forums now, and act the same as you have acted here, they will probably treat you just like we have. If you get discouraged like that, and run off scared because you are new, then you arn't going to get good at anything.
YOU need to do the work!
[edit] By the way, if you read my post up there, I also made my first preset when i was 15. And it was much worse than the ones that you posted. Plus, I'm also from Australia, so you can't use that as an excuse :P
Mr_Nudge
12th November 2004 08:48 UTC
I'm only 16 and made my first preset in april this year, i never asked for help, and none of the maths i've learnt at school has helped. Infact the maths i've learnt through avs has helped at school. In almost a year i've still only just got the grip of decent dms and superscopes (working on some 3d stuff now). As i said before, this takes time, but if your like me and mess around with avs instead of doing homework or study (which i should be doing now) it'll take less time.
The best way to learn is to download heaps of presets of all standards and find one with a basic dm and ssc, rip them to peices, re write them, build your own preset around them until you know what everything does. Then move up to a more complex preset and do the same thing. Keep going until you can write stuff yourself (you'll notice that each kind of dm/ssc that does the same kind of thing has fairly similar code). Tear presets to bits and mess around with it until you understand, and then you'll be able to do what you want.
Jaak
12th November 2004 12:23 UTC
Originally posted by MaTTFURYwell, reason why i banned you was:
will any of this help, and im having trouble understanding most of the 3D code that was given to me by Jaak [ was a friend :( ] he tryed many times explaining to me the 3D code just liked to say sorry ok ? hope he heard it
he's one of the best friends i HAD!
Originally posted by sidd3. you dont keep open mind about others opinions, you'r simply too closed in your own opinion and WAY too ignorant.
1. you want everything done for you
2. you don't listen to anyone's advice
Mr_Nudge
12th November 2004 13:03 UTC
well said there jaak.
justfuckinggoogleit.com - that's awesome, not as good a bitchmakemeasandwich.com though.
vanderphunck
12th November 2004 14:19 UTC
here's the formula of a cube:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Superellipsoid.html
Just set n=infinity.
PAK-9
12th November 2004 16:04 UTC
I'd just like to add as a callback reference... you smell
UnConeD
12th November 2004 18:38 UTC
With superscope and convolution filter? I've heard talk about a custom water effect, but never seen one actually, it's one of those urban AVS legends*cough*
dirkdeftly
12th November 2004 18:55 UTC
I think i was 14. And looking back on it, it's really not that great of an achievement. I'm just the first one that thought about it (or at least, the first one that followed through).
And since Oussy brought it up: MaTT, you suck.
http://www.flatface.net/~dirkdeftly/ Dig Me!
MaTTFURY
13th November 2004 03:45 UTC
anybody else wanna insult me? maybe im ignorant, mostly stupid, i came here for fun; not insults this kinda helps but and Sidd the eduamacation systems are SCREWED!, hmmm let me think thanks Jaak; you really pointed out some annoying stuff about me, only others opinions help me... i dont seem to be able to do it:
#1 Were do i start for the basics then?
#2 Then i might start on 3D, but im too damn busy...::!
soon coming a maths exam and 4 assignments
MaTTFURY
13th November 2004 03:46 UTC
hey UnConeD by user request could you close this topic after the next 6 posts?
Tuggummi
13th November 2004 04:19 UTC
anybody else wanna insult me?Ooh! Ooh! I do! I do!
sidd
13th November 2004 08:18 UTC
anybody else wanna insult me? maybe im ignorant, mostly stupid, i came here for fun; not insults this kinda helps but and Sidd the eduamacation systems are SCREWED!I am not insulting you.
Mr_Nudge
13th November 2004 09:21 UTC
yeah, i learn goodly enuf to rite good.... :igor:
Warrior of the Light
13th November 2004 12:51 UTC
Not an insult, merely a tip for your own safety:
Stay away from these forums for a while before things get out of hand.
Just start messing around with AVS on your own and try to see what you can come up with on your own, this will also give a great oppurtunity to further develop your own style instead of following our leads.
Then, when you've got some base experience to build up from, come back again and we'll be pleased to help you furter. Like this, we're not going to make process together anyhow.
mysterious_w
13th November 2004 14:22 UTC
I'm lazy and can't be arsed to read this topic from the beginning, but was it like my rant except not as well thought out, and he then started to insult people so everyone just ripped him to shreds?
If so, cool. :)
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