Raz

13th June 2003 00:52 UTC

Tournament
How about we have some sort of big avs tournament. Like lets say 15 people started out a title is given and a week later all the entries are collected and judged and the bottom 3 are excluded and out of the tournament. Then lather, rinse and repeat until the final where 3 people compete on the final one. There are no limits to what you can put in the presets but FPS is a judging criteria, other judging criteria could be creatiovity with the title, so you would get more interesting presets for the title. What do you think? Start pointing out complications and problems, i think i'll go to bed.

UnConeD

13th June 2003 01:36 UTC

Is the goal to improve the preset every round, or do you have ot create something new every time? It would be a good way to breed top-quality stuff otherwise.

shreyas_potnis

13th June 2003 05:53 UTC

Sounds good to me. The ONE problem is leadership. Who will take charge of all this?

Tuggummi

13th June 2003 07:23 UTC

I won't be entering, but not because of the last competition which ended up poorly, but because i won't be here after next week :(

I think it sounds great, good luck :up:

Raz

13th June 2003 12:19 UTC

I don't think i'll be able to take charge because i want to enter it as well.

Runar

13th June 2003 13:47 UTC

Originally posted by Tuggummi
i won't be here after next week :(

[Ishan]

13th June 2003 14:55 UTC

I think UnConeD should take charge , if he is not enetring. Otherwise atero maybe??

Phaze1987

13th June 2003 16:03 UTC

Sounds good,a little complicated but its a great idea...Knockout AVS :D Count me in,i hope it wont finish like the flow contest.

Raz

13th June 2003 17:09 UTC

It wont because there aren't limits to what you can put in it. It's just a judging criteria.

Nic01

13th June 2003 18:26 UTC

I'm in, and hopefully I can get my ass to do some AVS (don't take that literally).

As for now... *remixes Tuggummi's presets*

sidd

14th June 2003 02:07 UTC

i think tugg was a bit misleading with that remark.
My sources tell me (tuggummi tells me) that he is just oging home for the holidays, and will be back after.

Toournament sounds great, though it will require a lot more organisation than the miserable flow competition.
:confused:

jheriko

14th June 2003 14:24 UTC

I'd like to be in this if we are improving an initial preset and not making brand new ones for every round... i think it would make for a better competition that way.

Zevensoft

14th June 2003 14:43 UTC

I agree, and I'd hate to judge, because I'd like to enter.

Maybe I can make something so good it looks real :D
(Keep dreamin' :rolleyes: )

anubis2003

14th June 2003 16:49 UTC

I don't think I'm going to enter, but I could judge.

Deamon

14th June 2003 16:50 UTC

I'd like to enter as well. I'm not as good as you guys all are, but I'll learn a lot from it at the least. I can always try, right? :p

I'm not good at judging I guess, I'd only look to the ending preset, and the speed, not at how it is build up.

Hope I can enter :), I'd like to give it a shot.

sidd

14th June 2003 18:55 UTC

same. im definatly in

shreyas_potnis

14th June 2003 19:36 UTC

Well, then lets get started. Here are the guys who have opted to judge:
1) (and last) anubis. here ends the list.

And who will be the leader? I dont want to take charge now as I have lots of responsibilities right now and not got that much time.

skupers

14th June 2003 20:19 UTC

I would like to participate if there are enough places. I do think it should be about improving one preset only. Otherwise someone with an almost finished pack could just submit the best of the pack every week.

Deamon

15th June 2003 09:44 UTC

How will judgement be done? What are the points especially looked at? Or is that all to Anubis, and we do'nt ever get to know that?

Anubis! Don't you dare to takes sides :p

Doggy Dog

15th June 2003 09:50 UTC

Guess I'll be doing the judging too, if you would have me :). I'll be going away for a while next month, so I currently have time.

[Ishan]

15th June 2003 10:04 UTC

I can judge too, cause i dont feel like entering.

Deamon

15th June 2003 12:19 UTC

that makes 3 judges already, if accepted :)

question: How far may you go "improving" you preset, before it turns into a wholly new one?

Raz

15th June 2003 13:51 UTC

*sigh*, i can see this ending in yet more petty arguments. My original idea was to have a different title each week and have the people each make a preset, see who can make a good preset but also be creative with the title, then the bottom few are eliminated from the tournament. Then end of the week, a new title. A week to be creative and make a preset, bottom few are eliminated. And we continue until the final. New title, week, best one wins.

I really really don't see how improiving the preset each week would work. People would just have a preset built and take bits off before they released. I can see that not working out at all.

sidd

15th June 2003 14:33 UTC

im with raz.. the improving idea sounds good in theory, but i dont think it is really practicle to improve upon a single preset more than once or twice. Plus, after the first couple of weeks the tournament would start to get pretty dull.

so far we have:

10 contestants:
raz, unconed, shreyas, sidd, Phazey, Nic01, Jheriko, Zevensoft, Deamon, Skupers,

3 judges:
ishan, Doggy dogg, anubis

It doesnt matter how many enter, its not going to be knockout tree format, so we dont have to think about an certain number of people. eg as it is we can eliminate two each round for 5 rounds: 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, winner

or something like this: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, winner

it depends on how long you want it to go for...

there are still some notables that havnt spoken up yet. ie Atero, stardust, and fsk maybe.. so we maybe should wait a bit..

these are all just suggestions, i think raz should be decisions man, seeing as its his idea.

mquadrat

15th June 2003 14:43 UTC

I agree to Raz. After two or three weeks improving will get harder and harder and we'll see almost the same presets.

New Week, new title, new preset is fine for me. In my opinion the only alternative was to have some kind of remix tournament, where all competitors start with the same preset and try to improve this one.

mquadrat

15th June 2003 14:47 UTC

I think 8 weeks are too long. By the way who creates the titles?

[Ishan]

15th June 2003 15:32 UTC

8 weeks are way too long !

Phaze1987

15th June 2003 16:34 UTC

8 weeks really is big period of time...Raz`s original idea is great,lets keep it that way.As for the title,we could open a new thread and everyone gives some ideas(1 or 2 per person).But ONLY ideas so no postpumping or LOL @ X or anything else.For example : Endurance. Souns like a nice name to me. :D
10 <-> 7 <-> 4 <-> 1 |___|___|___| 3 weeks

Raz

15th June 2003 16:41 UTC

I say the judges come up with the titles because people who are entering could come up with titles that suit their already made presets.

mquadrat

15th June 2003 20:52 UTC

Yes and the titles should be secret until they are released.

Deamon

15th June 2003 20:52 UTC

I agree totally with Raz. Every week a new given title given to us by the judges, and a totally new preset should be made with it. So, when do we start? ;)

Runar

15th June 2003 21:42 UTC

Originally posted by siddhartha_one

10 contestants:
raz, unconed, shreyas, sidd, Phazey, Nic01, Jheriko, Zevensoft, Deamon, Skupers,

3 judges:
ishan, Doggy dogg, anubis

[Ishan]

16th June 2003 06:21 UTC

I like the idea! But what if more than ten contestents are wanting to enter? It would'nt sound so nice if they were not allowed to enter.

sidd

16th June 2003 07:04 UTC

sorry, runar. didnt see you there.. you should seriously think about getting an avatar =D

you can be whatever you like =)

[Ishan]

16th June 2003 07:17 UTC

Originally posted by me
[b]I like the idea! But what if more than ten contestents are wanting to enter? It would'nt sound so nice if they were not allowed to enter.

Nic01

16th June 2003 08:08 UTC

That's not practical unless you have 15 or more contestants.
If runar is the only >10th joiner, then we can just do the 3-week setting with 4 eliminated in the first week.
For others, change the 2nd part to 8. (and perhaps 9 for 14)

shreyas_potnis

16th June 2003 08:24 UTC

And what if someone else wants to enter in the middle?
I think we should promote this contest to get in atleast 20 contestants.

mquadrat

16th June 2003 08:45 UTC

Entering in the middle? Well, I would like to enter in the finals ;)
People must be in there from the Beginning.

[Ishan]

16th June 2003 09:41 UTC

Entering after the decided date should not be allowed.Cause that will make it unfair for those who have been eliminated in the first round. I think around 20 contestents should be enough(I doubt that many will come though).

Tuggummi

16th June 2003 09:51 UTC

Keep this going for +8 weeks and i can be one of the judges :)

[Ishan]

16th June 2003 10:15 UTC

Sorry tug but that will be too long!

Magic.X

16th June 2003 11:29 UTC

Damn, i wont be here the next 2 weeks. But i'll try to get it done on weekends.

Just a idea: the participants could judge which is best, except their own presets. They'll give points and they're summed up to a final score. The final votes could be something special, like a voting topic.

As this aint a short time thing, i would prefere 2 weeks creativity + one week judging and new topic developement. You know, there are peopel who don't come here that often.

fsk

16th June 2003 13:34 UTC

hmmm this sounds tempting but I'm too busy saveing my lazy^2 ass in school, to participate:(. im haveing a contest with myself right now, I have to design 2 DJ bags, a book, a poster, a buisnes card and more in two weeks (till 1st of june).After that I still have that flash project and PD4 if im lucky:((.
In other words Im in deeeep sheeeet,so its OK to say im out.

p.s. if you have any cool ideas for a DJ bag/box(for LPs)send me a mail :D and good luck with the tournament.

Runar

16th June 2003 15:10 UTC

Point taken siddharta :)
I'll be a contestant, but if the need for a judge is big, I could always be one.

[Ishan]

16th June 2003 15:19 UTC

Magic i dont think that contesting judging the presets is a good idea?

Raz

16th June 2003 17:48 UTC

Make thread to see who enters, "all entries after this date/time will not be accepted" all contestants and judges must be there from the start.

Agreed?

Runar

16th June 2003 18:33 UTC

Agreed.

Deamon

16th June 2003 22:24 UTC

agreed, though the idea of contestants judging except their own presets aint bad, it works better than you think. I guess everyone in here is fair enough not to play dirty with another. There is no victory in winning by cheating.

Raz

16th June 2003 22:57 UTC

I don't agree with that at all, as long as there's more than one judge they can come up with a decent and fair decision in all my experience. That would just lead to more complications and subsequently more arguments and disputes.

Magic.X

17th June 2003 06:13 UTC

Ok, was only a suggestion. This aint about fairness, but i like the idea thta only those who contributet may judge whats best, instead of of others who havent even seriously dealt with the task (ok, maybe they have but then again they could have taken part right?) :confused:

[Ishan]

17th June 2003 06:39 UTC

Magic infact i did'nt take part cause i'm right now busy with my sixth pack and i out of ideas, but i still wanted to be in touch with this contest so i thought i could judge:)
Anyway I agree with raz.

shreyas_potnis

17th June 2003 08:53 UTC

So if everyone wants to judge, then there will be more judges than contestants!
Stop this silly debate and Raz, start with the tournament. As you have strted this threads, you take th leadership..

Deamon

17th June 2003 09:22 UTC

yeh, let's get it on. Judges judge. Give us a title to work on.

[Ishan]

17th June 2003 10:30 UTC

I cant give a title alone! I'll have to consult Anubis and Doggy dog first.
I'll pm them.

Deamon

18th June 2003 10:44 UTC

ok, though don't wait to long with it, I guess a lot of us guys here will be on vacation in a couple of weeks (at least I am ;))

Magic.X

18th June 2003 11:02 UTC

I have to work somewhere else for the next two weeks so I'd appreciate it if we could get started right now.

[Ishan]

18th June 2003 17:30 UTC

We have selected a title for the first week(should i disclose it here or the other thread?). Raz, will you post another thread for the tournament or should i?

Raz

18th June 2003 18:21 UTC

Go ahead, i'm just a lowly contestant from now. :D

[Ishan]

18th June 2003 18:24 UTC

Allright it should be coming in afew minutes!

UnConeD

18th June 2003 22:23 UTC

I'm definitely not participating due to lack of time... basically what was wrong with the last contest:
- Rules too strict/unclear (doesn't apply now)
- Judges posted their results before everyone had finished voting.
- Judges knew who made which preset.

A better approach is to have a coordinator, who DOESN'T vote, receive all the entries. He then renames them to numbers (random order) and sends them off to the judges.

That's the only way to get complete fairness...

sidd

19th June 2003 06:11 UTC

damn, thats a fine idea udc

[Ishan]

19th June 2003 07:15 UTC

um..have i started this too early?? if yes we can get a mod to delete the thread.

shreyas_potnis

19th June 2003 16:40 UTC

ok, basically I rwads the tournament thread before this one, and I now think that ucd's idea is great.

Deamon

19th June 2003 22:04 UTC

It's indeed a very good idea.

[Ishan]

20th June 2003 07:19 UTC

yea, the idea is good . So do we have to get the other thread deleted?

Magic.X

20th June 2003 07:51 UTC

We can save this up for next round, because now peopel who already subitted would have to do new presets.

AND: Please open a sperate Thread for each round otherwise there will be a 250+ entries thread in the end.

Raz

20th June 2003 07:53 UTC

It would be appropritate for a sticky thread and keep doing tournaments in there but lets not get into that ;)

Magic.X

20th June 2003 08:19 UTC

I agree, provided that the devart and i wanna be steve wittens thread get unstickied. They have nothing to do with avs in general.

shreyas_potnis

20th June 2003 09:38 UTC

they can go to the avs presets sub forums.

Phaze1987

20th June 2003 10:22 UTC

NO damn sticky! Enough stickies.Now,are the "rules" going to change here again or what ? Btw,it would have been more cooler if judges would give a title like a word or a metaphoric proposition and we use our imagination in making a preset that suits the word.*end of my idea*

Magic.X

20th June 2003 10:58 UTC

I go with you Phaze, because Ishan already implied we HAVE to use Alpha Blending.

A much better title would have been something like "Spherical Dimensions" or so.

Anyway this can be done better next round, for Chrissake don't change anything now!

Deamon

20th June 2003 11:10 UTC

I also totally agree on the name thingie. It was supposed to be a contest to see who is creative with names, not with blending tricks etc. Otherwise I bet the "title" for next week is 3D scoping or something like that, instead of a abstract name which requires imagination, not technique.

[Ishan]

20th June 2003 17:16 UTC

Ok i get you guys! it'll be in the next round.

Runar

20th June 2003 17:24 UTC

But please don't judge this asking "Who's got the best and most flashy/advanced alpha blending?", ask "Which is the best preset and has the most original use of alpha blending?"

anubis2003

20th June 2003 17:29 UTC

That's true runar, but I think showing some advanced skill with alpha blending would definitely help - especially if it's really original.

[Ishan]

20th June 2003 17:31 UTC

*sigh* i never thought judging would be so tough!
I realise i have done a big mistake:( i was in too much hurry, i should have waited before everything was finalised.
What can i do now?

mquadrat

21st June 2003 13:55 UTC

Keep cool Ishan ;)

--

By The Way: What about a Tournament Pack ?

shreyas_potnis

21st June 2003 15:58 UTC

aw that sucks. I would have thought a very cool title for my preset...

[Ishan]

23rd June 2003 07:10 UTC

The tournament pack would be very big i guess we would have like:
20 presets- 1st week
15 presets- 2nd week
10 preests- 3rd week
05 presets- 4th week
--------------------
50 Presets total

is'nt that too much?:rolleyes:

sidd

23rd June 2003 07:21 UTC

not at all...
i think it would be nice

[Ishan]

23rd June 2003 07:39 UTC

Ok then we could do it afterwards

anubis2003

25th June 2003 22:33 UTC

Yeah, the pack isn't going to be that big - We only got 12 presets in the first round.

For next round, I think we should have the judges that aren't participating in the tournament, as well as one "judge" whose points are assigned according to everyone else's votes - we could maybe do a poll where everyone is allowed to choose their top one or two presets. Just an idea...

Deamon

25th June 2003 22:49 UTC

Yeah, let's do that :)

Raz

25th June 2003 23:21 UTC

I don't like it. Unecessary complications that will lead to it taking ages and people arguing. Keep it as simple as possible.

[Ishan]

26th June 2003 06:41 UTC

yeah, i like the way it is right now.:)

sidd

26th June 2003 06:48 UTC

true raz.
I think we should keep this as simple as possible, us avsers arnt the quickest of cats at the best of times when it comes to sorting out complications.

Deamon

27th June 2003 11:22 UTC

Now for the next round, let's be it a name contest and not some technique race like alpha blending or 3D scoping :p. Creativity is what this contest is all about.

[Ishan]

27th June 2003 16:40 UTC

yeah , were thinking about it.