UnConeD

7th April 2003 16:35 UTC

Moon buggy fun
http://acko.net/dump/moonbuggy.avi

:)

Is it real or fake?

shreyas_potnis

8th April 2003 06:41 UTC

i cant play the avi file :confused:

Phaze1987

8th April 2003 09:03 UTC

real but not AVS.I dont think you can simulate and coordinate the moves and bounces of the buggy with the terrain.Or if you could i think it would take ages.

Jaheckelsafar

8th April 2003 10:20 UTC

Nice. Is there another pack a brewing. I though you'd retired. :rolleyes:

What'd you do it in? I can't really see that being AVS. Too damn fast. But you never know...

Yathosho

8th April 2003 10:24 UTC

never speculate on people that 'retired' :D

uNDefineD

8th April 2003 11:03 UTC

Eh, another preset always comes out every now and then. :)

skupers

8th April 2003 20:12 UTC

I think it's real. I think it's one of those voxel terrains you made for Mission for Mars. You just need the height of the piece of voxel terrain the buggy is on. I think you can then simulate the bouncing like I did in my Gravity preset.

anubis2003

8th April 2003 21:27 UTC

If that is real it is awesome. I don't think that it would be possible to figure out the height of the terrain if it is voxel. Unless if you made it a SSC terrain and sped up the avi file...

UnConeD

9th April 2003 01:47 UTC

It is quite real, but the buggy's physics are proving to be a big, big pain. The car has to tilt in all directions and has to have realistic gravity effects (i.e. it has to be able to take a jump of a hill).

Oh and the voxels are updated from mission to mars too: I've added a trick that fakes up/down rotation (voxel-engines usually only have left/right rotation)

anubis2003

9th April 2003 02:09 UTC

that's crasy unconed. I wish I had those skills.

Tuggummi

14th April 2003 10:59 UTC

Really really sweet UnConeD :) *drools*

But if you are going to make Whacko AVS VII afterall i can already hear some evil voices complaining about the beat response or music visualization :( But you know we at the community think it's awesome, ignore the peasants ;) :blah:

Raz

14th April 2003 18:05 UTC

I can see this turning out well. It didn't load for me but i can still see it turning out well ;)

moltarx

14th April 2003 18:21 UTC

and just when i think that people are starting to reach the limits of what the avs can do, UnConeD throws out something like this :)

Raz

14th April 2003 18:50 UTC

It's not just a matter of ability, it's also a matter of keeping a good framerate, reactivity and all sorts of other magic things.

Deamon

14th April 2003 20:44 UTC

which are controlled by UnConed

Phaze1987

14th April 2003 21:14 UTC

Dammit.Wrong answer.So its real but it is beyond normal or even high-end presets.That is purely amazing...Well i have enough years to catch up :)

Raz

14th April 2003 22:00 UTC

He wouldn't post it here if it weren't real. Everyone would just be disappointed and pissed off because someone posted a pointless thread and deceived them. It's just common sense.

zamuz

15th April 2003 02:42 UTC

wow... you genious :)

3dino

23rd April 2003 22:34 UTC

krass!

AVS Axer

26th April 2003 12:06 UTC

Argghh.. that avi wont work with any meda player i have.. including director!! GRRRRRR

i really want to see that now..

UnConeD

26th April 2003 16:26 UTC

Get DivX -> www.divx.com

fsk

28th April 2003 14:08 UTC

Holly shit Coned this is ... well, WHACKO :)

Raz

28th April 2003 15:57 UTC

Whacko to the 7th degree in fact :confused: :D *nudge* *nudge*

Deamon

29th April 2003 09:33 UTC

it is....uhm..... creepy... I guess..... ugm.... *drools*

To UnConed:
Dit is echt om van te kwijlen man! Prachtig, kan niet wachten tot het volledige pack uitkomt.

Now I hope my computer can pull it of as AVS instead of the video window. Looks creepy heavy.

UnConeD

29th April 2003 12:46 UTC

THERE WILL BE NO WHACKO 7.

Sheesh. How many times do I have to repeat that :rolleyes:.

This is just spare time toying.

Tuggummi

29th April 2003 13:25 UTC

Well pardon me for saying this, but i think you make the best presets now that you have quit doing avs fulltime :)

Before i got the feeling from your packs that you had to prove yourself somehow and the presets weren't always nothing but technical show off's. Now that you do it for fun you seem to be making these kick ass presets that i have enjoyed even more than any of your whacko series.

What im basicly saying that im happy there is not going to be whacko 7 :)

AVS Axer

29th April 2003 16:18 UTC

ucd: well, i guess youll just have to move right into whacko 8 then.
:D


geez...That is by far the most avs-boundary-pushing preset i have ever seen..

that is if it really IS an avs preset:

How the fuck did you manage to put in the shadow of the moon buggy, in AVfrickenS??

AND How the fuck did you manage a 3d scope, with the entire voxelmap's height programmed, so as to provide for a 'real-looking' physix engine featuring collisions and grav, all within the variable limit of the superscope!?!??? :eek: :weird: :eek:

Nothing personal steve, but i refuse to believe it until i see it for myself.. Please post at least some of the code and my faith will be restored.. its not that i dont trust you, its just that i am suspiciouse....

I am clicking the post button now at extreamely high risk of being flammed, recieving 3rd degree burns all over.

/btw, its incredibly fucking good! avs or not.

UnConeD

29th April 2003 17:52 UTC

I can't post the preset cos it's on my PC at home and I'm at univ until friday, but just for you I'll post it along with a little surprise :p.

Yathosho

29th April 2003 18:01 UTC

is it just a preset or is there some new ape behind all this?

mikm

29th April 2003 21:58 UTC

maybe he used the global variables hack.

just got it working---this is amazing! can't wait to get the preset

AVS Axer:

shadows are nothing new in AVS. for the voxel height, it was probably calculated using a pseudo random number generator, or his global variables hack.

Raz

30th April 2003 00:27 UTC

this is 5 world class presets almost finished and its been what, a few months since you left and wouldn't come back to the forums or avs because you had no ideas. We never asked you to be as active as you once were all we ask is that next time you toy around in your spare time for about an hour and out-avs the rest of us for years to come ;) you withhold it until you have 10 more sweet world class presets, make an intro in your spare time and shove it out there. This is my final plea and i won't harass you any longer or mention it again if you refuse. It's just that you could've been half way there already and it's rather obvious you want to avs. So, final plea.

UnConeD

30th April 2003 05:26 UTC

The current preset is APE-less, but I intend to use the globvar hack to add something new and unseen-in-AVS...

Raz

30th April 2003 05:28 UTC

Point made ;) :(

AVS Axer

30th April 2003 10:36 UTC

Ok, im convinced and humbled. Sorry about that.

mk2:
"shadows are nothing new in AVS. for the voxel height, it was probably calculated using a pseudo random number generator, or his global variables hack."
I wasnt saying it cant be done, just that it would be near impossible to comute in lousy old AVS.

edit:
by the way, ucd, why are you at uni unitl friday, is there a hostage situation or something?
We can come rescue if you wish..

UnConeD

30th April 2003 11:17 UTC

Either that, or I just live at uni and only go home in the weekends?

AVS Axer

30th April 2003 11:26 UTC

ohhh... ok then..
ill call off the swat team..

sidd

5th May 2003 10:28 UTC

"I can't post the preset cos it's on my PC at home and I'm at univ until friday, but just for you I'll post it along with a little surprise "
--Unconed's promise

"fridays come, fridays go...wheres my moon buggy?"
--Billy Corgan, well, he said the first bit, i said the second bit.

UnConeD

5th May 2003 13:44 UTC

Sorry too busy this weekend. If you really want I could email home instructions for my dad to go rummage through my dump of AVS presets and try to find the correct one to mail through though :P.

sidd

5th May 2003 14:02 UTC

haha
well let you off this time..
but if you do it again you dont get paid!

mikm

6th May 2003 00:25 UTC

pfft...doing a 'terrain' has also been done before: the beta in J8

and its m^2k, not mk2 or m2k

UnConeD

10th May 2003 23:18 UTC

Here it is, but I really didn't do much with it anymore because its visualisation value is 0. By the way the steering and physics is far from perfect and it can still get stuck backwards sometimes.

Phaze1987

10th May 2003 23:55 UTC

WHOA...Its sweet,looks like smth made in a proffesional 3d graphic program like Cinema XL or 3D max :) Btw,it looked better in the .avi

Yathosho

11th May 2003 00:09 UTC

impressive.. just wondering why you no longer put comments in your presets

Wiser87

11th May 2003 00:13 UTC

Lol, heh... he did...

----------wheels--------

zamuz

11th May 2003 01:51 UTC

wow.

Zevensoft

11th May 2003 02:07 UTC

wow, looks great :D

UnConeD

11th May 2003 02:33 UTC

Because this is not a preset in a finished pack? :)

sidd

11th May 2003 08:14 UTC

Very friken nice!!!! what can one say??

I just found this, one single line of code:

py=(sin(x1*0.61+1)*sin(z1*0.4333)+sin(x1)*sin(z1+sin(c2*5)*20)*.6+sin(x1*1.419+c2*10+1.5)*sin(z1*1.6333+c1*20)*.4+sin(x1*3.197+2+c1*17)*sin(z1*2.954)*.2+sin(x1*3.714)*sin(z1*3.911)*.1)*.8-1.90+pz*elevz;

haha, thats insane..

btw, sorry to pressure you, but what did this mean?
"I'll post it along with a little surprise"

Raz

11th May 2003 12:16 UTC

pfffbt, thats not a long line of code. This is one line out of the main DM from my alien material preset:
x1=1/(1+((sin((sqrt(sqr(x-(sin(sin(s*0.1)*cos(s*0.5-rx1)*5-cos(t*0.5))))+sqr(y-(sin(sin(s*0.2)*cos(s*0.3)*5-cos(s*0.2))))))*3-s*2)+sin((sqrt(sqr(x-(sin(sin(s)*cos(s*0.3)*5-cos(s*0.4))))+sqr(y-(sin(sin(s*0.2+rx1)*cos(s*0.5)*5-cos(s*0.4))))))*4+s*0.1)+sin(x*(cos(sin(sin(s*0.03)*cos(s*0.1)*5-cos(s*0.1))+2)*5)+y*(sin(sin(sin(s*0.03)*cos(s*0.1)*5-cos(s*0.1))+2)*5)-s*6))*0.2+0.5));

I say the terrain looks more like an ocean myself but jesus man, that movement is perfect. I could sit there and watch this for ages. Amazing job once again. You continue to astound the entire community :)

sidd

11th May 2003 16:12 UTC

youchies.. thats alot of friken sines and cosines.

UnConeD

11th May 2003 16:37 UTC

axer: that py line is the terrain, composed of several octaves of sines. You can change it around if you don't mind copy/pasting it to all the other scopes ;). Same for the shading. I know it looks kind of oceanish, I could try making it more crater-shaded but that would probably be slower.

Btw Raz, that line could use a lot of optimizing... e.g.
"sin(s*0.03)*cos(s*0.1)*5-cos(s*0.1))"
=
"(sin(s*0.03)*5-1)*cos(s*0.1))"

If you further cache s*0.1 (a commonly used value in your code), you can get rid of a lot of multiplies. Remember that getting rid of one statement in a DM means getting rid of gridsize-amount of operations, for a 20x20 DM that means 400 operations.

Raz

11th May 2003 17:10 UTC

I was going to optimise it at some point, just kept putting it off, i mean look at it. I just did it though, thanks for noticing.

Wiser87

11th May 2003 21:51 UTC

Gah... I think my head's gonna explode :igor:

hungryskull

12th May 2003 01:48 UTC

This is a very nice preset.

Limpet

12th May 2003 02:18 UTC

The buggy even has suspension on it!
Good God how long did it take you to get all of this?

sidd

12th May 2003 05:19 UTC

so what's 'elevz' then..x rotation?

also, im gonna ask you once more:

wtf is this?

I'll post it along with a little surprise

UnConeD

12th May 2003 12:09 UTC

elevz is the vertical position of the camera (affects the fake tilting up/down of the terrain).

Oh and there is no surprise sorry ;). It's fun to keep people in pointless suspension (though the not-posting-the-first-weekend was not intentional). Do you always focus on the details? :P

sidd

12th May 2003 12:32 UTC

lol.. what a bitch of a thing to do..

whatdo you mean about 'the details'? if your wondering why im so curious of your code, it was cuz i finally decided to try and work out how you did the whole voxel terrain thing..

ive now decided that anything that requires more than 5 ssc's for any result isnt worth the headfuck!

btw: i think that the terrain map from mision to mars was nicer. this one seems too bumpy, which doesnt work aswell because the voxels are so inprecise along xaxis. But then again, if you used a smoother map, the buggy physics wouldnt be as noticable.

Warrior of the Light

12th May 2003 13:21 UTC

What's this GlobVars hack? If it doesn't screw up any .ini's and stuff, it sounds VERY interesting...

And Deamon, please stick to English... Ook al spreken er hier meerdere mensen Nederlands.
^^^
'Even if several people aroud here speak Dutch.'

anubis2003

12th May 2003 17:11 UTC

the glob vars hack uses the spectroscope stuff to store variables. These variables can then be accessed using getspec(). Don't think we'll ever see this released though. Just wait for the next avs update.

UnConeD

12th May 2003 17:45 UTC

Bah I'll explain it again... the globvars hack is really, really, really unuseful. Here's how it works:

- Dot superscope calculates values, and draws them as colored pixels in the upper left corner, first row.
- Globvars hack reads those values and inserts them into the getosc data.
- Other components read those values as getosc.

Limitations:
- Range is 0..1 for input, -1...1 for output, so you have to rescale your range so it fits into that
- Precision is 1/255, not good for large ranges.

Because the typical 'read-in' code is quite large per scope, it's seriously not the way to go when you just need a global rand(). In this case you should use a regular getosc. It's only useful if you really, really need to do some complex calculations on a var that cannot be duplicated.

In its current state it's non-configurable and I'm sure if I released it as "Global Variables Hack" I'd get tons of people asking "I put in teh global var appe in my presetz and then in my scope I put foo=2 and in anoter scope it is not 2???? PLZ HLP!!1!!!".

Warrior of the Light

13th May 2003 08:54 UTC

Too bad... I hoped for something like an APE in which you can define vars that apply to all objects so that you don't have to re-type everyting for every item, so that it speeds things up a bit...

This means I still have to define pi for every object...
Too bad, too bad :(

sidd

13th May 2003 13:25 UTC

im sure you could make some sort of global variables effect list.

Well, not really an effect list, but an APE that can import other APE's such as ssc's and dm's. You could maybe have specific globes assigned for all APE's within the 'effect list'.

Then again, this may be a pipe dream, my c knowledge isnt sparkly enough to justify the claim.

BTW, can you use the 'b' switch as a globe ucd? or is it predefined as boolean..

all of this would be so easy if we had source. =(
isnt one of us able to make a ssc and dm replica with the neccesary improvs?

UnConeD

13th May 2003 13:59 UTC

The problem is mainly the scripting language. The actual DM/SSC mechanics are not that hard.

I don't have time to implement AVS' scripting language completely (though it is possible), plus I really don't want to reinvent the wheel. It's up to nullsoft to make the scripting engine available to APEs, not the other way around.

Phaze1987

13th May 2003 19:26 UTC

Nullsoft will do shit...I have the feeling they dont care about us...We complained in a lot of threads but,no results.Its up to UCD and his free time :)

Wiser87

13th May 2003 20:43 UTC

Originally posted by Phaze1987
Nullsoft will do shit...I have the feeling they dont care about us...We complained in a lot of threads but,no results.Its up to UCD and his free time :)

Yathosho

13th May 2003 21:15 UTC

some guy from the NSIS project talked of the possibility that not all code in avs is nullsofts own (but bought code-parts). this could be the main-reason why avs is not open-sourced (while NSIS is, and its from the same company).

i'm wondering what ryan geiss knows. he's mentioned on the team nullsoft site, and he did visualizations before. one must speculate, he knows more than he pretends ;)

UnConeD

13th May 2003 21:59 UTC

I don't know, what parts would be proprietary? We know the scripting engine is Justin's, the dynamic movement stuff is cool and quite unique to AVS/Milkdrop afaik, but it's not really that hard to implement.

Working with pixel operations started waaay back in the demo scene... the only difference is that AVS does it in 32-bit color and makes it modular.

moltarx

14th May 2003 00:09 UTC

i am learning how to write compilers/interpreters, and am up to the challenge of coding an open source version of the avs if anyone is interested in helping... :)

sidd

14th May 2003 07:17 UTC

open source would be good but it could be risk due to all of the potential n00b "updates" and "clever add-ons". it is unlikely that the scripting engine is made for avs, probably just a bought or freeware header. But even so, it would not be hard at all to make.. excpet for brackets and stuff, i hate that sort of thing.

Its up to UCD and his free time

moltarx

14th May 2003 16:17 UTC

we wouldn't have to make a scripting engine that was different though, we could emulate it completely using tools like flex and bison. as far as clever n00b add-ins and the like, if we ran a truly open source project, they would have to be contributed back to the project, and approved to get into the source tree. not everyone gets read/write access to the cvs tree.

u are right that there are more than just one capable programmer in the community, and i would like to consider myself one. however, the fact that i dont boot into windows very often now would probably pose a problem. although... it would be totally awesome to build a cross-platform version that you could have the option of building for either xmms or winamp3 :) and that is totally possible... all we would have to do is write the windowing/drawing code using something portable like sdl, and then just make sure that we can get the language parser to work on both, and we're golden :) my offer still stands. if anyone is interested, this is a project that i will probably start in the near future.

sidd

15th May 2003 06:32 UTC

well, if someone could emulate the scripting stuff properly we would all be a happier bunch. :)
Im not even going to try though, i think i need to master some other stuff before i get into that sort of tripe.

moltarx

15th May 2003 16:19 UTC

I am happy to start work on it as soon as i finish my current two projects >.< if anyone else is interested, maybe we should start up a sourceforge project :)

sidd

16th May 2003 05:51 UTC

im down for that.. though im not much use.