A challenge to the computer geeks!!!

solarsinger827

19th November 2002 19:27 UTC

A challenge to the computer geeks!!!
:weird: Allright people here's my idea....How bout a program or plug-in, whatever that lets YOU set the beat and save it per song. you know click the mouse to the beat and tag it to each individual song. Hmmmm???? Just an idea. Tell me if you can!

dirkdeftly

19th November 2002 22:45 UTC

Why should we go out of our way to answer your question? Do you think that we're all here to be your servants?
Even if this post did have something to do with AVS, which it doesn't, it would belong in the AVS WISHLIST forum, not presets.

This discussion has been had before, and it comes down to the fact that the beat in a song doesn't stay the same all the way through. And at any given point, the BPM is such an irrational number (that the computer cannot calculate fully) that by the time you get 20 beats into it, you're way off. That's what AVS's advanced beat detection setting is for; to correct the position of every registered beat every time it detects a beat.

Lastly, the human would have to enter the beat, and the human error would cause the beat to be so off that it wouldn't last more than five seconds.

solarsinger827

19th November 2002 22:59 UTC

Like I said.....
It was a challange....And it dosn't change that much...Most songs have a set time signautre. Which remains contsant. You could have fun features to set certain things to happen at certain parts in the song. It was just a suggestion. And not just for me. I think alot of users would like this. Cause you can do it yourself.

dirkdeftly

19th November 2002 23:23 UTC

No, they don't. MOST songs' tempo changes about 1 BPM over the course of about a minute, if they're completly acoustic, which MOST songs are. Some songs change time signature as well. In any case, the BPM will almost never 'fit' into the computer's calculating range (which I think is around 16 sig figs if you don't want to slow things down like a motherfucker), so the error in the BPM will multiply extremely over the course of a minute. Sort of like using pi to 4 sig figs (3.141), then multiplying by 400. The result is 1256.4, and the error becomes approximately 0.2. To put that back into song terms, that means that if your BPM was off by 0.000142 seconds at the beginning of the song, by the end of the song it's going to be a whole quarter of a second off. Not good, is it?

BTW, what I meant by 'go out of our way' was to actually e-mail you, not to reply to this post. Sorry if I offended you.

Jaheckelsafar

20th November 2002 03:27 UTC

Wow, pretty civil there Artero. :up:

To do something like you suggest, you have to have a DB on you harddrive, or hook info onto the end of each MP3, which I doubt you can do in AVS.

I know I wouldn't use such a feature.

dirkdeftly

20th November 2002 18:21 UTC

Who's Artero?

Jaheckelsafar

20th November 2002 18:58 UTC

Bah, sorry Atero.

I was posessed by the devil.

Clashman

22nd November 2002 13:58 UTC

You know...
...a slightly modified version of his idea might be of use.

Something like a Trigger At Time option in Effect List setup - you have an effect list that triggers at time x (where x is the length of time into the song, either defined in minutes:seconds or as a percent, such as 1:30 or 10%), and it'll activate itself at that point. Enable Onbeat does something similar, but it's kinda, well, inaccurate if you want a specific time in a song to trigger it (Aphex Twin's song Born Slippy is a good example of this - a preset maker might want to have multiple effects in the same preset that trigger for various sectiions of that song which emulate the feel the preset maker has during those sections, and Enable OnBeat is, to put it bluntly, not much good for something like that).

It'd require a bit of work so that AVS could read the time-signature byte(s) in an MP3 or from CDDB info, but it might be useful.

Additionally, the time-triggered effect could be set to shut off at a predetermined time y (again, defined in min:sec or as a percent, and the Effect List Setup option could be End Effect At: ) so that it's not mixing with another time-triggered effect or effect list.

Just a thought, but... ;) Think about it.

Jaheckelsafar

22nd November 2002 15:11 UTC

Hmm, maybe not as a one shot thing. I couldf see that being useful if you could cycle it. 30 seconds on, 10 off, or something like that.

And Born Slippy is by Underworld. :p

UnConeD

22nd November 2002 16:38 UTC

And Born Slippy is by Underworld.

And one of their best tracks too :D).

Clashman

25th November 2002 13:25 UTC

Originally posted by Jaheckelsafar
Hmm, maybe not as a one shot thing. I couldf see that being useful if you could cycle it. 30 seconds on, 10 off, or something like that.

Mmm...yeah. 'Course, there may be some people who want it to be a one-shot thing to fit the specific feel of a certain part of a track, so pehaps an option to make the time-delay triggering cyclic or one-shot...

And Born Slippy is by Underworld. :p

The version I have as an MP3 is tagged as being by Aphex Twin. Then again, Aphex Twin may have a track called "Born Slippy" that's completely different from Underworld's - after all, you can't copyright titles. You can copyright the contets of a titled work (characters, places, events, music, etc.) but not the title itself, if I remember my copyright law correctly.

Jaheckelsafar

25th November 2002 14:10 UTC

If it is in the movie TrainSpotting, it is Underworld. Maybe a mix?

Having different settings per song for an effect in an AVS has been discussed in another thread, but the arument boiled down to this:

To do that you'd have to modify the mp3 file (whcih can't be done with the given tools to my knowledge) or have a DB on your harddrive. If you had you go for the DB route, you wouldn't be able to rename your mp3 files, or to really share the preset with other people because they might have a diffent filename for the same song.

Clashman

25th November 2002 14:31 UTC

Or a remix.

Never saw TrainSpotting, although it sounds interesting.

And as for the comment in regard to the database/MP3 editing, the one-shot thing is time-delayed. That means that after a certain point in the song - DETERMINED BY THE USER AS A PERCENT OR MIN:SEC POINT (this is the key - the USER defines the trigger point with an input box (much like the ones udes to define SuperScopes), and chooses the time as a percent (dynamic triggering, due to the fact that although the percent of a song that needs to play stays the same, the amount of time that composes that percent varies by track length) or specific min:sec point (constant, as the effect will always trigger at a certain time in each song, defined in minutes and seconds, such as 00:30 - thirty seconds into a track) - the effect will trigger.

In essence, the Effect List configuration would look something like this, if Timed Triggering were implemented the way I see it:

[X] Enabled [ ]Enabled OnBeat for [ 1] frames
[ ] Clear every frame

Input:

[Ignore ][V]

Output:

[Replace ][V]

Timed Triggering:

Duration: [ 30] seconds; User defines this as he would the number of frames in Enabled OnBeat

Trigger effect list:

( ) When song is [ 10]% complete ; Same as Duration
( ) After song has played for [ 00] : [ 30] ; Same as Duration

.( ) One time only ; the "one-shot" option
.( ) At intervals of [ 10] seconds ; the "cyclical" option. Interval duration is inputted the same way as the Effect List Duration.

IMO, the "Enable OnBeat" option for effect lists is too imprecise, which is why I don't use it. I'm sure it has its uses, I just haven't found any. Something like Timed Triggering, though, is much more precise and thus much more useful.