Rovastar

16th November 2002 15:21 UTC

People using your stuff and getting paid!
I am curious what the authors think of VJ's/public performances (Tv, music videos, etc) that use your own AVS's,and make money out of it.

For the past year or two I didn't mind at all people dispalying my stuff but as I get more involved in VJ'ing I am starting to think differently. But I could be baised esp as I have had potentially gigs stolen from me and they use my content!.

I know we all do this vis stuff for the love and we are all caring sharing people. ANd if someone thinks your stuff is good enough to play in front of many people then it is a great buzy but.....

Comments, abuse, praise, etc

Montana

16th November 2002 15:50 UTC

actually i'd not mind if somebody use my stuff for vj:ing, because i make avs for my own sake and because i don't like makin anything else, and if someone likes it then it's better,

Jaheckelsafar

16th November 2002 16:07 UTC

Hobby here. I don't mind. Infact, I'd like to know if they did.

jheriko

17th November 2002 04:13 UTC

It takes a lot more talent and skill (things which deserve money) to make visualisations than it does to display them (even though that can be really expensive). VJs are kind of like DJs since they are most often outputting the work of other people to an audience, except DJs *buy* their music which is then played using their expensive equipment.

Point is... no one should really be making money off of me without me knowing about it, its just plain rude. I don't really mind it but I would like to know about it if its happening.

Tuggummi

18th November 2002 13:09 UTC

First i would thought it would be flattering...
but then i would remember how much time and effort i have put on my presets and it would really piss me off! :mad: Not so much the money fact, but if the VJ gets the credit from my presets then i would send him a mailbomb.... Grrrrr!

But on the other hand, i guess they would be viewing UnConeD's stuff rather than mine... Who knows :rolleyes:

Yathosho

18th November 2002 14:39 UTC

Originally posted by jheriko
VJs are kind of like DJs since they are most often outputting the work of other people to an audience, except DJs *buy* their music which is then played using their expensive equipment.

Yathosho

18th November 2002 14:42 UTC

to answer the question, no i don't mind. actually its the purpose of making avs for me, i want them to be used. of course vj's get paid for there work, but i don't feel like he's stealing my money. avs is a free plugin and so the presets should be.

if people sell my avs on cds i'd prolly have another opinion, but that's a political one: i don't want other people to pay for something they can get for free!

Tuggummi

18th November 2002 15:34 UTC

if people sell my avs on cds i'd prolly have another opinion, but that's a political one: i don't want other people to pay for something they can get for free!

Clashman

4th December 2002 02:48 UTC

It all depends...
Here's how I feel:

If a VJ uses someone's presets (for simplicity's sake, I'll say mine, altho that's unlikely :P ), and that person credits the creator of the AVSes - and gets paid for one reason or another (good taste, good at his job, whatever), I say: Let it be.

If the VJ uses my presets and claims them as his own and I find out about it, I'll probably start out by very firmly but politely asking him to at least credit me with creating the AVSes. Hopefully, he will do so.

If said VJ is running a little sideline of making compilations of AVS presets that people particularly like (compilations of the favorite presets of Person X, say) and he's distributing them free or for a reasonable price (say, the cost of materials - in this case, a pack of CD-Rs/CD-RWs), AND he's crediting the creators of the presets, all well and good - the more people who find out about us, the better!

BUT-

If he's claiming the presets as his own, or charging more than a reasonable price, or anything else that might upset me, AND I find out about it - I would be seriusly pissed off, and there'd be trouble - mucho trouble! :mad:

dirkdeftly

4th December 2002 19:43 UTC

Actually, if someone VJs your plugin - AVS, Milkdrop, Geiss, anything - without your written consent, and is making money off it, it's illegal. When you made that plugin, you automatically have the copyrights to it, but the problem is enforcing them. You have to have it written down somewhere...I don't know how to get it officially done, though. My point is, that if someone's making $500 a gig VJing parties, and they're using your plugin(s), you can sue their asses pretty bad...

Zevensoft

5th December 2002 02:17 UTC

Posting something on DeviantArt kind of helps, because they add copyright notices and dates to things, and also means people can witness it's yours. But what I'd like to know, is do they charge money for the service or for the actual plugin?

dirkdeftly

5th December 2002 06:39 UTC

Doesn't matter, they're using your copyrighted material for profit, which is copyright infringement. Y'know those warnings at the beginning of video tapes saying they're from private home use only? Same idea.

VisualAgnosia

5th December 2002 07:17 UTC

Copyright
If anyone out there knows the "best" way to get a proper ligit copyright on a preset they should post it here. This is where it'd do the most good..

Spending so long learning and making a preset in the dark gloomyness of your room for thousands of party goers paying buckets of squids to some organiser is all abit like making some one else rich if the party goes off and people are paying good bucks..

If you love your Art and put your time and soul into it and someone else is making a PROFIT off it ... I reckon you deserve a pice of that pie.. (that sweet capital Pie). Then again how realisicaly viable is it to enforce that ... If you can enforce it DO SO, if not make sure you get props for it. Unless your a Monk and have no need for wealth..

VI:igor:z:igor:AG

UnConeD

5th December 2002 15:01 UTC

Actually, the law on intellectual property says that you have the copyright on anything you write. For example, by writing this post, I own the copyright on the text, except if the forum's agreement states otherwise (for example quoting a post).

The only difficulty with such cases is proving that it's yours, however intimidation is usually enough in the large company vs. small entity case.

dirkdeftly

5th December 2002 19:18 UTC

Exactly. However it's only when you use other people's copyrighted property for profit that it's illegal.

VisAG: There's absolutely no point in getting a legit copyright to a preset - I believe there's a large fee involved, and it takes quite some time

UnConeD

5th December 2002 20:24 UTC

Atero: I don't agree... if I share my MP3s over Kazaa, I'm not doing so for profit, yet IP law considers that illegal.

And 'getting a copyright' is unnecessary, because you automatically own the copyright on the things you make. Simply putting "(c) Your Name" on something is enough for that.

I believe you're mistaking copyright "this book was written by me, and thus you can't reproduce it" with trademarking "The name Coca-cola is mine and thus you can't use it".

jheriko

5th December 2002 20:36 UTC

Originally posted by UnConeD
I believe you're mistaking copyright "this book was written by me, and thus you can't reproduce it" with trademarking "The name Coca-cola is mine and thus you can't use it".

dirkdeftly

6th December 2002 01:18 UTC

No, I'm not. Frankly I'm pretty sure the RIAA griping about Naster, Gnutella, etc. sharing MP3s is just bullshit. They have no way to show that their clients have been monetarily damaged by the filesharing; in fact I'm pretty sure Napster has boosted RIAA's sales. And, there's no plagiarism involved, nor any individual making money for work he didn't do.
However, I see VJing presets without crediting them as plagiarism (not to say that all VJs don't credit presets). Besides that, if the author isn't making money, and the VJ is, it's infringement of copyrights (as I understand it).

VisualAgnosia

6th December 2002 12:45 UTC

To slightly disargee,

Sharing Mp3's can definately be seen as making a profit, Because Joe blogs who spends 3 grand on a music collection and the more innovative internet user who spends $20 a month on internet hours for the same amount of music is, in the end, making a profit from money not spent.

eg. Now I Have and extra 3 grand to spend on my business which makes money, or I could go and invest it or something... This is a totaly grey area odviously, becuase how do you declare on a tax statement for example that that 3 grand came from "not" spending money on a certain luxury when you actually have it.

Basically the man who buys his Cd's from the store it financaly a sucker, Unless of course he thinks the Cd artwork is worth $30.. (not to say that it's not but how about the CDcoverwork for "best of rock 2002". The music companys are aware of this arising mentality and putting their large bank accounts againts this legaly to keep raking in the cash. The only real losers are the up andcomping musical artists that have it hard enought getting signed and actually getting paid for their work.

Atero:- Sounds a bit much to get it done, I suppose it'd only be worth it if there was alot of money being made out of it. I've been to Club nights where they've had the old Giess pulgin projected on the wall( It looked real good too) two different places I can remember had the same plugin and they both had entry fee's. Did he get any of that cash ????? I wonder.

-- If you (ie, a masterfull AVS'er) could promote their Vjness at some clubs and have say a residency, and a small cut. then if other places used it, made money off it, It'd be good to have a company behind you to inforce your rights. Instead of being seen as a solitary identity.

:cool:The MadHouse nightclub :cool:
All the lastest Tracks and -
Home of the VisualAgnosia Visualisations ....

*"Keep dreaming" I hear being yelled from many directions*:eek:

VI:igor:z:igor:AG

fsk

13th December 2002 10:36 UTC

hmmm... I think if I saw someone do it (use my stuff and earn money) I'd be realy happy because that would mean I can also :D. I'dd actualy be happy to do it for free:D.

If I ever get the chance to do so,can I show your's(I mean everyone who reads this)?

I will give you full credit don't worry :D.

jheriko

13th December 2002 19:02 UTC

Go for it, and good luck to you on that...

Jaheckelsafar

14th December 2002 07:48 UTC

Yeah sure.

Clashman

14th December 2002 17:27 UTC

Yeah, go ahead. Some of my early work (my first two packs) are kinda crappy, though - then again, I was just getting into AVS.