- AVS Presets
- Dunno were else to put this
Archive: Dunno were else to put this
Bizzeh
1st November 2002 02:00 UTC
Dunno were else to put this
honestly.. i think that people posting avs presets in componants section is NOT fair people who work hard in c++ to make some exelemt plugs are being ignored because of these avs presets that are flooding the database.. personaly, i think there should be a whole seperate thing for avs presets. and that way, every1 gets the credit they deserve.
and, why are there "ALL NEW FOR WINAMP 3", when there the exact same thing from winamp2 avs, exept there in the new database? this is realy begining to suck...
any1 else think the same?
hope some action is taken
Bizzy
Darkain
1st November 2002 02:03 UTC
yes, exactly. AVS should be seperated... exspecally since they DO work with both Winamp2 and Winamp3. the database has been flooded with alot of the same stuff that was already there in the WA2 database, and its putting all of the great components that have been worked on for months out of view completly.
Plague
1st November 2002 02:06 UTC
what he said..
enuff is enuff, do something about this as all the components disapears among all those avs presets..
the components section will be flooded with avs presets just like the wa2 skins section was/is flooded with skinner.exe skins..
extremely annoying to say the least..
I'm not saying that avs presets aren't good, but they really don't belong in the components section, as they really are their own kinda thing..
-Plague
mc^^^^
1st November 2002 02:08 UTC
couldnt agree more, nuff said
Mr Jones
1st November 2002 07:02 UTC
Wrong forum fellas, please don't clutter this forum up, it's, the review guys work hard enuff without having to keep checking this forum for new post.
Talk to the AVS review people, they were supposed to be cleaning this mess up, check the presets forums.
Gonzotek
1st November 2002 22:19 UTC
Here here! I totally support "AVS Preset Segregation" or APS as I like to call it! Keep them in their own category.
I'd be more than willing to spend a few hours a week mining the db for presets and moving them into the proper place. Maybe if admin knows there are enough volunteers we can get the ball rolling on this, anyone else want to volunteer?
-=Gonzotek=-
Hollow
1st November 2002 23:48 UTC
me.
Bizzeh
2nd November 2002 02:19 UTC
id be glad to offer my self to help..
jheriko
2nd November 2002 13:37 UTC
Re: Dunno were else to put this
Originally posted by Bizzy D.
honestly.. i think that people posting avs presets in componants section is NOT fair people who work hard in c++
as a c++ programmer and an avs artist i can honestly tell you that if anything avs presets are much harder to make (unless you are talking about noobish presets which do clutter everything up and should be banned fullstop), simply because it is a huge struggle with framerate and because the code is so limited. i could make any of my avs presets in c++ in probably half the time and have them run at 10-20x the framerate too
Originally posted by Bizzy D.
avs presets that are flooding the database.. personaly, i think there should be a whole seperate thing for avs presets. and that way, every1 gets the credit they deserve.
yes, that makes perfect sense. in a way an avs preset is like a sub plugin for a specific plugin so it isn't on the same level as an actual component. this is all more than likely the result of laziness on the part of the responsibles.
UnConeD
2nd November 2002 14:24 UTC
I agree with Jheriko: AVS presets can be a lot harder than C++ because you're working in a limited environment.
And anyway, my latest work is a mix of C++ (APEs) and AVS anyway :D
Jaheckelsafar
2nd November 2002 14:37 UTC
The Winamp people are looking into getting a separate AVS category. I agree, AVS should be in it's own category.
dirkdeftly
5th November 2002 08:18 UTC
Funny how half the people who responded to this post don't ever visit the AVS forums.
I'm fairly sure that plugs never get seen by anyone at nullsoft - their servers are programmed so that plugs simply get delayed 4-6 wks before they're posted.
And I thought AVS HAD it's own category...called AVS presets?
Hollow
5th November 2002 12:26 UTC
Some of us visit, but just don't post.
Yathosho
5th November 2002 13:44 UTC
Originally posted by Jaheckelsafar
The Winamp people are looking into getting a separate AVS category. I agree, AVS should be in it's own category.
uhm, there
is an
avs section in components, what's the problem?
Jaheckelsafar
5th November 2002 14:06 UTC
I mean separate from plugins, 'cause they're not plugins. Way back when, before winamp3, I never got to see visulalizers other than winamp in the most recent list because the volume of AVS being pumped out just kept shoving the rest off the bottom of the list.
Gonzotek
5th November 2002 15:10 UTC
Sure, there IS an AVS section, but they're everywhere else too, so if I wanted to find visualizers that WEREN'T AVS, how would I be able to see them? search for "viualizer & !avs"? </rhetorical question> Right now, there is no easy way to browse or search for non-AVS vis plugs. More importantly, in Winamp2's database at least, the AVS presets had wormed their way into input, output, dsp, pretty much all categories. We want a team of volunteers (ala Skin Review) to sort out the db and keep the presets in the proper category.
And I'm another who doesn't post in this particular forum, but I do visit fairly often.
-=Gonzotek=-
dirkdeftly
6th November 2002 01:22 UTC
They aren't technically plugins, but they still have the same function as other visualizations. Frankly, you're being really arrogant. AVSers work hard to make presets, too. And 90% of really good presets get ignored because the Nullsoft people will post anything - even if it doesn't work properly - and all the good presets get bumped down before they can get good ratings.
Also, I seriously doubt many of you hardcore C++ programmers could pull off a decent AVS preset. Not to knock C++ - AVS is just a different skill. Just like most of us hardcore AVS scripters couldn't pull off a decent 'real' plugin.
Darkain
6th November 2002 01:51 UTC
something else im starting to see more and more of is Winamp2 plugins being posted as Winamp3 components and then they jsut say it requires the WA2PM. i mean, WTF? if its Winamp2, its Winamp2, not Winamp3. alot of non-component things are being posted more and more often in the database. next, people are going to be posting Winamp2 skins as Winamp3 skins, or are they already doing this? i dont keep up with the skinning stuff all that much...
and for all of you that say "oooo.. AVS takes alot of effort too, and its harder than C++"... well, ya see, i highly doubt this. the main reason why i complain about the AVS flood is because i DO do both C++ and AVS. i can whip out AVS presets over-night, while making components, well... those just take time because of all the debugging of the code.
Winamp2 has a site, Winamp3 has a site, and AVS should have its own site as well, as it isnt just for either. AVS presets work on both.
UnConeD
6th November 2002 01:52 UTC
Basically someone needs to get off his/her lazy ass and move all the AVSes into the AVS section ;). Problem solved :P.
There's tons of people downloading presets while thinking they're regular plug-ins, who then complain it 'doesn't do anything'.
Oh and:
and for all of you that say "oooo.. AVS takes alot of effort too, and its harder than C++"... well, ya see, i highly doubt this.
I think I can call myself very experienced in both AVS and C++, and once you above a certain level, AVS becomes harder. That's the fun part...
For example for my next pack, I made a voxel landscape renderer in pure AVS, without extra APEs. Doing it in C++ would've been a lot, lot easier, but then it wouldn't be as cool.
Of course I agree you don't have to be rocket scientist to make presets. The problem is that it's simply hard to make un-cool presets, because AVS is a very flexible piece of software. People click a few buttons, think they've made something cool and then submit it as their own special presets.
But this is a symptom in almost every online publishing community really.
Darkain
6th November 2002 01:55 UTC
Originally posted by UnConeD
Basically someone needs to get off his/her lazy ass and move all the AVSes into the AVS section ;). Problem solved :P.
There's tons of people downloading presets while thinking they're regular plug-ins, who then complain it 'doesn't do anything'.
moving them to their existing section isnt the answer. we need them on their own site. look at the "top 10 components for winamp3" and tell me how many are AVS presets? and then look at the "top 10 plugins for winamp2" and tell me how many are AVS presets? and then tell me how many are the SAME presets?
they simply are just flooding EVERYTHING.
UnConeD
6th November 2002 02:07 UTC
Seriously, without AVS I doubt much would get published in the way of components. Besides, the top components list simply lists the things people like most. Sound like you're a bit upset that your work (or someone elses) isn't being appreciated as much.
The same could be said for all the stupid, horrible translations by the way. I don't want a gazillion fan-made crappy translations full of bad spelling and dialect: I want one, quality translation made by a person with a degree in that language. For example, if a localised Windows has opted not to literally translate a term, then the localised Winamp should do the same. They're flooding everything!
And what about those stupid Wildtangent plug-ins? I'm not a hormone raging straight male teen, so I have no interest in watching polygon-boobs shake around the screen. They're flooding everything! I wish I could search for "visualiser & !wildtangent" </rhetorical>.
Sounds to me like Winamp just needs to revamp its taxonomy system. A 'top 10 per category' would fix the problems you describe. And they need to start using the bloody 1-star and 2-star ratings. Anything that doesn't suck as much as a black-hole gets 3+ stars.
Darkain
6th November 2002 03:05 UTC
i agree about the translations, but the only difference about those tho, is that they are winamp specific. a winamp2 language pack and a winamp3 local are 2 completly different things, unlike AVS presets wich work with AVS on WA2 or WA3.
Gonzotek
6th November 2002 03:59 UTC
I think most of us would agree the system does need a revamping, but how much can we actually ask of them? What I'm advocating in the more immediate sense is volunteers to go through the db and put things where they belong. Once the current system is as cleaned up as it can be, maybe it would be easier to move over to a new system. But, regardless, presets belong with presets, and translations with translations, and output with output, etc. It really doesn't matter how much work a c++ plug or an AVS preset requires, sometimes I want one, and sometimes another, AND it's possible NOW for me to get that experience, except for the fact that the presets are in categories they don't belong in.
If the skin review team can completely remove skins (for good reasons of course) why can't a team be formed to simply categorize components/plugs/presets/etc. appropriately? Where's the problem?
-=Gonzotek=-
UnConeD
6th November 2002 06:28 UTC
Problem: none of the people here have any moderating powers or influence whatsoever. Except maybe Rovastar.
dirkdeftly
6th November 2002 07:14 UTC
Uhh...hello? The best way to deal with it IS to simply move the AVS presets and take better care of putting plugins in their proper place. If you make a seperate website for them nothing's going to change. Why do you think our unworthy AVS presets are getting published in your holy DLL section in the first place? The people publishing them aren't paying attention to where they're putting them, and the people putting them into that section aren't paying any attention to what section they need to be in in the first place.
UnConeD is right. AVS is a LOT harder than C++, and I can whip out a C++ program overnight. Except that I'm not any good at C++, and I only do the simple things to make a program. You, most likely, are no good at AVS and only do the simple things to make a preset. In other words, AVS can be harder than C++. When (and if) it ever gets fixed in the next version, AVS is going to be much easier, but until then you can't say that AVS is for n00bs who are too lazy to make a DLL.
Finally, you're 'holier than thou' approach to visualizations is REALLY starting to piss me off. You write a DLL that's faster, more user-friendly, and more customizeable than AVS, then you can use that attitude. There's about a snowball's chance in hell of that ever happening, so you can shut the fuck up about your plugins being so much better than AVS presets.
The fact remains that the visualizations are just that - VISUALIZATIONS. They aren't about the code (no matter what Jheriko says). If someone has a vision they recieved from God for the perfect way to visualize music, it really doesn't matter in the long run whether he writes a DLL or scripts it for AVS. Now go crawl back into the cave you came from and lose the cocky attitude.
UnConeD
6th November 2002 14:05 UTC
Atero: do you actually still post messages that don't insult half of the people participating in the thread?
This is exactly the kind of reply that people don't want to hear: that we're little bitches who don't care about other visualisers, as long as AVS presets get published.
In any case, I think the amount of volunteer work on this website is already huge. When do you actually see a Nullsoft member participating in the community and helping out? That's bothering me.
Gonzotek
6th November 2002 14:23 UTC
Originally posted by UnConeD
Problem: none of the people here have any moderating powers or influence whatsoever. Except maybe Rovastar.
Not true. I am a moderator (if only a temp). I can ask. I've at least got a proven track record of being generally knowledgable about Winamp3 and helpful to Winamp3 skinners. I'm not saying I can move mountains or making myself out to be better than anyone else, but I can ask and get a definitive answer, at the very least. It couldn't hurt.
Originally posted by Atero
Uhh...hello? The best way to deal with it IS to simply move the AVS presets and take better care of putting plugins in their proper place. If you make a seperate website for them nothing's going to change. Why do you think our unworthy AVS presets are getting published in your holy DLL section in the first place? The people publishing them aren't paying attention to where they're putting them, and the people putting them into that section aren't paying any attention to what section they need to be in in the first place.
Cleaning up the db is the ONLY THING I'm trying to get accomplished. The database is messy and it doesn't make finding things easy. Forget about the words "AVS", "presets", "plugins", "translations", etc. Let's use Orange, Apple, and Peach. I don't want to go looking for a peach and only come up with apples. I personally hate apples, but love peaches. Someone else might like apples and oranges, but not peaches. Why can't we give 'em what we want?
We can, but we need volunteers willing to do the work, because I highly doubt anyone else at Nullsoft has the time. But the forums have the manpower and the precedent has already been set with the skin review team for a user-based team to work with the db.
So, I'm asking as politely as I can, would anyone else be willing to help put things where they belong? Don't bother flaming me if you disagree: If I get enough positive responses, I will take a list of names to Nullsoft and ask for permission to do this. If I don't, I won't. It's as simple as that. If you don't want it to happen, simply stay mute and it probably won't and the db will get messier and more difficult to use than it already is.
-=Gonzotek=-
Hollow
7th November 2002 04:11 UTC
Just to reiterate, I would be willing to work on that.
Plague
7th November 2002 19:29 UTC
I'm up for it to...
Though I cannot check it every day, I can check it from time to time and sort what needs to be sorted.
And this discussion is getting more and more rediculous..
It's never been about "MY component is BETTER than YOUR avs preset!!".
It's never been about which takes most time to make and which is more appreciated by the community.
wa3 components and avs presets just doesn't belong in the same category!
That has nothing to do with "which ones are the best?", they only needs to be separated, that's all.
Otherwise we could just throw the skins in there aswell, as maki isn't exactly easy either and "quality" skins take a long time and alot of effort to make.
And wa3 skins are actually more like wa3 compoents than avs presets are, since avs presets are the same for both wa2 and 3, while wa3 skins ONLY work on wa3, thus making them a component of wa3..
But they are listed in their own category anyway because it would be really stupid to do otherwise..
about avs presets having their own "webpage", well I believe he meant that they should have their own tab (Home | Winamp | Music | Skins | Components | AVS Presets | Videos | Community | Develop)
or maybe make a visualizer presets tab, for all the visualization dll's out there capable of having presets (milkdrop, avs, geiss?, smoke, G-Force, etc...)
either way, the presets are a part of ONE component, they are not components them selves thus not belonging in that tab at all...
No matter how hard they are to make or how good they are..
-Plague
jheriko
7th November 2002 22:36 UTC
Originally posted by ThePlague
maki isn't exactly easy either
Isn't it practically C++ with all of the hard stuff done for you? Its always looked just like that to me and it works pretty much the same.
Originally posted by ThePlague
and "quality" skins take a long time and alot of effort to make.
That is really true... I've made one skin for wa3, it is shit and took me hours to complete.
But, yes, silly bickering is annoying, the whole point is that the mess that constitutes the Winamp 3 component database needs some fixing.
Gonzotek
7th November 2002 23:45 UTC
Maki has a C-like syntax, but it has a lot of limiting factors. It doesn't do file i/o and it has a rather small-ish set of built-in functions compared to a full fledged language, for example. For what it is intended for, it's pretty useful, and can always be extended wih components, but its natural limits sometimes force scripters to be particularly clever or creative. It's one of my favorite languages and I could wax ecstatic about it all day, but I'll just shut up now.
-=Gonzotek=-
dirkdeftly
7th November 2002 23:54 UTC
UnConeD: Of coure not. I thought you knew me better than that ;)
I feel that me and the jackass that said 'and for all of you that say "oooo.. AVS takes alot of effort too, and its harder than C++"... well, ya see, i highly doubt this' are even after my post, thankyouverymuch.
Now then, if you're just looking to get the DB cleaned up, you go ahead and try to convince Nullsoft of doing so. Don't come complaining to the AVS forums about it - NONE of the people here post AVS presets in the skins section (just an example); I know this for a fact. Besides that, like I said before, I seriously doubt that Nullsoft cares where the plugins go in their database.
And Gonzo, that's exactly what I was getting at, in case I wasn't clear enough
Plague
8th November 2002 00:32 UTC
Don't come complaining to the AVS forums about it
this thread was moved here from the rip reporting forum because the mods didnt think it belonged in there and pointed here..
Talk to the AVS review people, they were supposed to be cleaning this mess up, check the presets forums
-Plague
Jaheckelsafar
8th November 2002 09:22 UTC
I do them as we see them.
Gonzotek
11th November 2002 21:47 UTC
Originally posted by Jaheckelsafar
I do them as we see them.
I see you're in the "Forums AVS Reviewers".
http://forums.winamp.com/showgroups.php?s=What does that give you/require of you? Does it allow you to move AVS presets out of incorrect locations? If so, then could more people sign up for it? If (as I suspect) it also requires us to be AVS reviewers I would have no problem with doing that work too, but that is that much more work to do before the db is cleaned up. I still think a team set up just for cleaning up the whole db (presets, plugins, and components) would be beneficial. People whose only job is to look for incorrectly categorized resources and re-categorize them. The skin database is much better for all the work the skin review team has put into it, compared to before they existed.
Anyway, cheers to you for doing what you can :).
-=Gonzotek=-
Rovastar
11th November 2002 21:52 UTC
*Sigh* I have been after a separate area for this for the past year. In fact I have bookmarked an old thread about this so when/if Nullsoft make the changes that is on the wishlist backstage I can post there. :)
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....&highlight=avs
Notice the dates. :);)
One day I will post there when the situation is resolved.:) Although probably not this decade.:)
Despite Steve's words of support I have no influence and have got sick of asking/bitching to be honest. (All the proper plug-in authors are miffed by this too and it has disheartened the few that are left to the point as people give up altogether possibly)
Goz, etc you are willing to try and if it happens that is great. It was meant to be sorted for WA3 website release but it just made matter worse if that was possible
Oh IMHO plug-in writing is a lot more difficult than doing presets (*sigh* at my unfinished plugin in the SDk framework). I know you have limited scope and you have to be more creative but you are not writing 40,000 lines of code and have to worry about you plugin working on multiple OS /graphics cards, etc, etc the list is long so long. Hell it is hard enough just beta testing the visualizations and those are the ones I do not write.:)
dirkdeftly
12th November 2002 01:27 UTC
Being an AVS reviewer when you've never made an AVS preset is like being an auto mechanic when you've never owned a car. You want some guy who rides the bus every day to fix your muffler?
Rovastar
12th November 2002 01:54 UTC
? Not at all.
I have reviewed music for record companies in my youth yet I cannot play an instrument. How can that be.
Maybe you think you should review only if you can make as good a visuals as you review.
Through my many years of wasting away looking at/studying visual stuff I have a good idea on what is decent or not.
Beside I could make a preset. I have done a few but not very good but my time and effort goes into new visualizations plug-ins at the moment.
I have only reviewed one or two packs anyway at the moment.
Still a little miffed as to why that attack came about. MAybe you prefered the good old days when AVS was modless and AVS packs were not getting reviewed. :confused: :confused: :confused: :(
Jaheckelsafar
12th November 2002 09:59 UTC
How complicated a preset is doesn't really enter into the equation IMHO. What matters is reactivity, how well it works, and how good it looks. Complicated coding is good for bonus marks. ;) (but only if the the other three are fulfilled)
Given that criteria, anyone should be able to review a preset. Given a month, anyone can pick out the exceptional ones and the crap ones.
dirkdeftly
12th November 2002 22:57 UTC
Yes, and I for one would not like somone who's never touched a saxophone to judge my music.
Rovastar
12th November 2002 23:36 UTC
I'll make that extra special effort to review your packs Atero.
Nic01
13th November 2002 02:05 UTC
One don't need to be able to use something to be able to review something that the item would belong to in general term, But it takes a try at the item to give a more appropriate review - Especially about knowing the hard work involved.
Anyways...
We's probably need someone as hardworking as Realitysquared (See Deviantart) to move all those AVS files, but a community work should do it quickly and effortlessly (But that doesn't mean you shouldn't put any effort).
One other alternative (Was it mentioned somewhere in this topic? It's hard to remember 40 long posts, when 50% or more are long) is to create an AVS-dedicated site... But of course, the problem is for someone to start it. Nullsoft? They hadn't updated AVS for several months (Was it already a year?) (There ARE minor updates... but none of those we really notice), it's currently unlikely for them to start it. The community? The problem getting someone to start.
Hopefully one of the possible answers to this problem will be fulfilled...
Tuggummi
13th November 2002 06:41 UTC
IF IF IF IF IF IF.... blah blah...
If i could only know how to create dynamic webpages (know my ways trough php, mysql and the works) I could do it, but i don't think that an avs site that is made with a static html languange only would do any good, we would need a place like deviantart.com for example.
dirkdeftly
13th November 2002 07:21 UTC
Did I say I didn't want you reviewing my packs? No, I didn't. You're an AVSer (or at least sometimes), so you know what's put into it. I just generalized my view that someone who doesn't know how to do activity x shouldn't publicly judge the difficulty, quality, or performance of activity x.
Bizzeh
13th November 2002 14:17 UTC
ok... to settal the "what is harder to do"... some1 post the source to an advanced avs preset and some1 post the source to an advanced wa3 plug... then... we will see what is harder
Plague
13th November 2002 14:50 UTC
throw in the most advanced maki script too while you're at it..
This discussion is so rediculous, it's never been about "what's harder to do" or "what's better than what?"...
It was only about sorting the damn stuff..
Still, most of you probably agree that maki scripts are the easiest to make and also what's deserving least attention..
HAH! I say...
*mumbles something untranslatable*
-Plague
dirkdeftly
13th November 2002 20:12 UTC
I don't give a fuck about what's harder to do. If I said it before I'll say it again: Your 'holier than thou' attitude is really pissing me off. NONE of your plugins is EVER going to be as versatile as AVS has always been. Nor will your plugins be as useable, editable, and fixable as AVS presets. However, AVS presets have their limits, and C++ plugins are much faster and easier to program (for certain things, such as the synchronization of a camera and a 3D render object). In all honesty we're pretty even, and this conversation is going nowhere towards the original goal of rooting out the misplaced presets (read: What ThePlague said.)
This thread shouldn't have been posted in the first place. If you'd taken ten minutes out of your life to find the AVS reviewers and politely ask THEM to move the presets, your problem would have been solved.
(By the way, your original statement is kind of selfish. We could say the same thing about moving all of the skins to a seperate site and all the plugins to a seperate site because we think that AVS presets are all that life is about. We (or at least some of us) work our asses off to make original presets with what little we have, just like you (or some of you) do with your plugins. Put yourself in our shoes next time.)
Gonzotek
13th November 2002 21:28 UTC
If there were already KNOWN procedures in place, then this thread would not have been started. If there are procedures that aren't publicly known (as it appears there are), how do you expect us to know to contact a AVS reviewer and be able to report problems if you don't inform us?
Originally posted by Atero
Your 'holier than thou' attitude is really pissing me off. NONE of your plugins is EVER going to be as versatile as AVS has always been. Nor will your plugins be as useable, editable, and fixable as AVS presets.
Wow! Now that's really hypocritical! How do YOU know what will or will not happen? In what way do you get the right to dictate to someone else what is possible or not,
for them? That's a holier than thou attitude if I've EVER seen one.
If it's the AVS reviewers job to move the presets into the correct areas, why isn't it advertised ~somewhere~ as such? I only found out about it after seeing Jaheckelsafar's post that he does them as he sees them. The skin review team has a ton of information posted about how to report rips and other skins problems, and even a forum to do the reporting. If there is a document detailing this, point me to it and I'll shut up and start reading. If not, can someone answer my previous questions and new questions:
How does one become a avs reviewer? -- There's only three AVS reviewers, but thirteen Skin reviewers.
What are the specific abilities and responsibilities of AVS reviewers?
If you're not looking for more reviewers (as it seems you're not, since it hasn't been mentioned yet), are the current reviewers prepared for a deluge of requests?
Do the AVS Reviewers have the capabilities to move other resources (components, langauge packs, etc.) to their correct locations? -- There are more than just presets that need moving, I remind everyone.
I'm glad that the AVS reviewers are doing what they are doing, don't get me wrong please. But it's too little, too late and more effort is required. I'm willing to put out that effort, why are some people insisting on putting roadblocks between the work that needs to be done and the people that want to do it?
If I've made false assumptions anywhere in this post, don't bother attempting to "nail" me on them. Please, politely explain where I'm wrong and what the correct information is. I want the correct information, not mine or anyone else's mis-assumptions.
-=Gonzotek=-
Rovastar
13th November 2002 21:37 UTC
Calm down all.
Cover bases again.
Nullsoft's winamp.com site is crap, simple.
99.99% of all the AVS presets are in the relevant sections.
If not let me know and I will move them.
The confusion arises is that the wa3 coders are upset/annoyed (as the plug-in codes were for wa2) that there new plug-in is not displayed in the new section as AVS can swamp all of them. The individual section for compenets are all intact.
We all want a new section for AVS presests but there is nothing we can do about that at the moment. Nullosft have no time/do not care.
Moving the presets on mass is no a problem as they are all in pretty relevant sections of the database. AVS presets for wa2 and visualizations for wa3, the later is the only pain.
Although AVS presets work for both WA2 and WA3 simply moving the existing wa3 submitted avs presets to the wa2 preset section does not work because of the installers designed for wa3 that some may have used.
I feel the WA3 devlopers are right to raise this question although it has been asked before (obviously you wa3 devolpers did not submit much for wa2 or you would have noticed this before). MAybe it was a little insenstivly worded but free what I can gather it was not posted in this forum initially so it appears worse tahn it is.
Nothing will be changed at the moment.
Rovastar
13th November 2002 21:57 UTC
Gonz,
Report as normal if you think something is in the wrong place and should be in another section or just PM me and I will move them.
I do not check the rip section to often as it 99% are about skins not avs presets/plugins.
AVs reviewing is only a month old and we are still finding our feet but I do not see too much wrong at the moment.
I made a thread about them and choose 3 out of the few that had a interest in them. there was a 3 month back log at the time and wa staff were not updateing anything. Chatting the the skin ppl 2 or 3 was a good number. Just as teh first skin reviewers there were no guidelines apart from what we make ourselves and I do not think that we need any more at the momemnt.
So as for too little too late I think you misunderstand.
Hope it explains more
(edit oh and from what I understand all skin reviewers and avs reviewers can move compents around. Reporting them in the rip forusm seems the logical course of action for these)
Rovastar
13th November 2002 22:24 UTC
Arragh I am getting more confused now.
If you goto www.winamp.com and click on compenets you go to
http://www.winamp.com/components3/
but on that page there are only 6 different catagories listed for wa3
DSP/Effect, Input Components, Locales,
Miscellaneous, Output Components, Visualizations
So that is why I thought that was all there was.
Ooppps. Silly me or I should I say Foolish website. Hopefully it will only take Nullsoft 4 months or so to add another link for the other sections that appear at some points in there consistant website (avs, games, etc). First though I will have to get through all teh brick walls before I get contact with the relevant nullsoft staff.
Gonzotek
13th November 2002 22:25 UTC
Originally posted by Rovastar
Reporting them in the rip forusm seems the logical course of action for these)
That's where this thread started, and Jones moved it here. If we report them in rips(which no one until just now has encouraged), will they just be bounced around and/or ignored or will they get more or less the same attention skin rips do?
Just as teh first skin reviewers there were no guidelines apart from what we make ourselves and I do not think that we need any more at the momemnt.
Care to elaborate as to what the guidelines are as of now?
[edit] By the by, thanks Rovastar for explaining and double-checking things. I finally feel like a bit of progress has been made, even if it's only getting some actual facts. Anyway, I appreciate the effort[/edit]
-=Gonzotek=-
Gonzotek
13th November 2002 22:35 UTC
Originally posted by Rovastar
Arragh I am getting more confused now.
If you goto www.winamp.com and click on compenets you go to
http://www.winamp.com/components3/
but on that page there are only 6 different catagories listed for wa3
DSP/Effect, Input Components, Locales,
Miscellaneous, Output Components, Visualizations
So that is why I thought that was all there was.
Ooppps. Silly me or I should I say Foolish website. Hopefully it will only take Nullsoft 4 months or so to add another link for the other sections that appear at some points in there consistant website (avs, games, etc). First though I will have to get through all teh brick walls before I get contact with the relevant nullsoft staff.
That's one big sticking point, right there. There's the Visualizations category and the AVS category.
If you look at the
AVS category, you have only AVS's (just as it should be), but look at the
Visualization category and it's AVS and other types mixed (and only 14 items, compared with 105 in WA3-AVS).
-=Gonzotek=-
Gonzotek
13th November 2002 22:45 UTC
Ah hell, I'm just starting a report here :):
These are all in the Visualizations category and not in the AVS category (I checked all 105) in the Winamp3 database.
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=124472
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=123578
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=118535
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=123930
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=123530
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=123050
And finally, this one, which is listed as the "Birds of Prey 'AVS'", even though it's one of their fugly proprietary vis'es, and thus shouldn't have AVS in the title.
http://www.winamp.com/components3/de...onentId=122524
-=Gonzotek=-
Rovastar
13th November 2002 23:12 UTC
Yeah I 'just' noticed the AVS section. Initailly when the WA3 site was set up I do not think there was an AVS catagory but someone must have added it.
I thought the AVS and VIsualization sections were the same thing.:)
That is what I meant in the above post.
Sorry for that and obviously I will remove these later - today/tommorrow.
I noticed the stupid WildTangant thing too. They really are stupid. I am downloading now to see if it is a AVS (I know it will not be but want to make sure) and to see how bad it is.:)
Then I will try and change it in the Control Panel but I will be soooooo tempted no doubt to change the review rating;):);)
But I might not be able to as the review section of teh website is so poor.
(edit the name of the downloadable exe is AVS too. grrrrrr)
Rovastar
13th November 2002 23:36 UTC
Originally posted by Gonzotek
That's where this thread started, and Jones moved it here. If we report them in rips(which no one until just now has encouraged), will they just be bounced around and/or ignored or will they get more or less the same attention skin rips do?
Care to elaborate as to what the guidelines are as of now?
[edit] By the by, thanks Rovastar for explaining and double-checking things. I finally feel like a bit of progress has been made, even if it's only getting some actual facts. Anyway, I appreciate the effort[/edit]
-=Gonzotek=-
Ummh I dunno then where is the best place for reporting them I though rips might be the bets place but otherwise the AVS forums will do.
If you see any PM me. TO be honest I more than most want to see a nice section for Visualizations and without AVS presets. One of the first things I did when getting access the other month was to move some strays in the WA 2 database.
I honestly thought that Visualizations/avs were the same section.:o
and all the vis devolpers I know (and know most) either aren't releasing anything at the moment or I have the betas so not been checking. But I will Keep a close eye on teh Visualization section from now on.
Plague
14th November 2002 01:21 UTC
one of the big problems is that on the components main page:
http://www.winamp.com/components3/
there's no AVS section listed, nor is there a Games section..
you'll have to go to "New Components" or "Browse Components" to get the complete list of different sections to the right..
That's the main problem.
Then there's this:
The confusion arises is that the wa3 coders are upset/annoyed (as the plug-in codes were for wa2) that there new plug-in is not displayed in the new section as AVS can swamp all of them.
Which is the biggest problem of them all in my opinion, but seems like a problem we're gonna have to live with..
But it's not just the AVS Presets that push the few available components to the next page really quickly, translations are getting more and more common too and they do a pretty good job on that too..
Hopefully, Nullsoft does something about it SOMETIME, even if it's far away...
-Plague
Jaheckelsafar
14th November 2002 03:09 UTC
I changed the categories for the listed AVS packs. I'll leave that bird of prey one for Rovastar. :)
Now, if only the DB will keep the changes. <fingers crossed>
Tuggummi
14th November 2002 07:16 UTC
About that Birds of Prey AVS...
If you look at the details you notice the word AudioVisualizer, so i guess by AVS they mean that :rolleyes:. Also it could be a way to lure "common" people to download it, because AVS is POP at the time (i know it's weird, but when wa3 was launched the first visualization components were avs packs, so they got a head start, but that advantage is growing shorter by the minute)
Ok, i didn't mean to participate in the "my dick is bigger than yours, bitch!" conversation, because im bad at that :p
But i ask the stand-alone visualization component writers to have a little understanding towards our tiny avs community, because we get crap from all directions saying that avs sucks and it's slow and it doesn't look smooth enough etc. Even our own forum mod hates us! ( or atleast is a milkdrop fan ;) ) So don't be suprised from peoples reaction to this post, but try to understand where we are coming from and what we have to deal day-after-day.
I think...
AVS presets are like SKINS, they are supported in winamp by default and the Advanced Visualization Studio comes with every winamp version nowadays (well maybe not in the lite 2x version if there still is that option) So i think that there should be a button in the top just like skins.
I said something... that is enough /me thinks.
UnConeD
14th November 2002 07:37 UTC
Fact is, even though an expert can give a better judgement, it's the regular people whose judgement is mostly used. Sad, but true. No decent musician will think Britney Spears is a good musician, with her computer-tuned voice and silly-cone boobies, yet the majority of the male teen population obviously thinks she's great...
The solution is to accept this, and only pay attention to the comments and reviews that actually make sense (good or bad).
Plague
14th November 2002 08:56 UTC
Originally posted by Tuggummi
About that Birds of Prey AVS...
If you look at the details you notice the word AudioVisualizer, so i guess by AVS they mean that :rolleyes:. Also it could be a way to lure "common" people to download it, because AVS is POP at the time (i know it's weird, but when wa3 was launched the first visualization components were avs packs, so they got a head start, but that advantage is growing shorter by the minute)
Ok, i didn't mean to participate in the "my dick is bigger than yours, bitch!" conversation, because im bad at that :p
But i ask the stand-alone visualization component writers to have a little understanding towards our tiny avs community, because we get crap from all directions saying that avs sucks and it's slow and it doesn't look smooth enough etc. Even our own forum mod hates us! ( or atleast is a milkdrop fan ;) ) So don't be suprised from peoples reaction to this post, but try to understand where we are coming from and what we have to deal day-after-day.
I think...
AVS presets are like SKINS, they are supported in winamp by default and the Advanced Visualization Studio comes with every winamp version nowadays (well maybe not in the lite 2x version if there still is that option) So i think that there should be a button in the top just like skins.
I said something... that is enough /me thinks.
This post was actually very constructive, very giving...
Thank you.
I personally didn't know this but now that I do, I can understand why some of you might get pissed off really easy..
Still annoying when it happens though.. ;)
And the fact that you also think that the AVS presets should have it's own category like the Skins do, shows that we are on the right way...
Hopefully Nullsoft will read this aswell and try and do something about it, *crosses fingers*
-Plague
Rovastar
14th November 2002 12:35 UTC
Originally posted by Tuggummi
But i ask the stand-alone visualization component writers to have a little understanding towards our tiny avs community,
:) You think the AVS writing community is small. You should look at the stand-alone vis community sometime. :);)
No of them have posted in this thrread and are unlikely to. They keep there bitching to emails or the sticky thread I started in the WA plug-in forum.
My views are trying to encourage the the standalone community and to help the AVS community.
I feel the AVS community is reasonably healthy I cannot say the same for the stand-alone vis community. 1 or 2 plug-ins /updates in the last six months is not many really (I amnot count the 2 wildtangent screensavers :) ).
Originally posted by Tuggummi
Even our own forum mod hates us! ( or atleast is a milkdrop fan ;) )
I am here to plot your downfall. :)
dirkdeftly
14th November 2002 18:17 UTC
Tug, AVS presets are as close to skins as Niel Young is to quality vocalism.
Tuggummi
15th November 2002 07:21 UTC
Atero, well if you want to take it that way then fine, but i meant that they are like skins BECAUSE
1) They are very easy to make, even easier than skins, that's why we have a lot of crappy presets just like we have a lot of Generated skins.
2) As i said it before, it comes with winamp by DEFAULT, so there is no real requirments or extra downloads for it, it's not like you have to download skin support for winamp, do you?
And just because i said they are like skins and didn't meantion FIGURETLY SPEAKING you have to be a meanie? :( It's like when i ask you "How is it Hanging?", i don't mean that i want to know how is your dick hanging! Im just asking "How are you?" :p
And because AVS presets are so easy to make, they have been spamming the real plugins/components as well as the good avs stuff, just like generated skins spam the skins that have been made with time&effort.
AVS doesn't require any knowledge of coding, just like skins don't necessaraly require any knowledge of how to use a example. Photoshop.
dirkdeftly
15th November 2002 14:43 UTC
Jesus Christ, can't you people take a fucking JOKE once and a while...?!
Tuggummi
17th November 2002 13:18 UTC
Atero, take a look at the hostile attitude of your own posts and think again :p
Ok, no hard feelings?
/me hugs atero :)
dirkdeftly
17th November 2002 22:12 UTC
'Hey man, lighten up...'
'You ever talk to me like that again and I'll beat the crap outta ya!!'